recommendation for wideband meter for carbs

General engine tech -- Drag Racing to Circle Track

Moderator: Team

csx7031
New Member
New Member
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 1:55 pm
Location: Mustang, Oklahoma

recommendation for wideband meter for carbs

Post by csx7031 » Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:35 pm

I'd like input from those who have experience using a wideband AFR meter to tune carbs. I don't need a data logger or a lot of extras. I just want accuracy repeatability, and reliability. It will not be permanently installed in any of my cars.

Thanks in Advance,
Chuck

Casper393W
Pro
Pro
Posts: 378
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2016 7:18 am

Re: recommendation for wideband meter for carbs

Post by Casper393W » Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:37 pm

I have the Fast unit and I love it!

427dart
Expert
Expert
Posts: 658
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2015 3:23 pm

Re: recommendation for wideband meter for carbs

Post by 427dart » Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:41 pm

I have the AEM gauge and seems to work fine with a nice digital readout. Before this one I had the original LM-1 unit for years.
It's only used to check my carb tune if something seems not right and then put away.

prairiehotrodder
Expert
Expert
Posts: 694
Joined: Sat Dec 24, 2011 10:02 am
Location: melfort saskatchewan Canada

Re: recommendation for wideband meter for carbs

Post by prairiehotrodder » Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:48 pm

I have the AEM failsafe with data logging. The data logging is nice because if you are tuning WOT at the track you don't have to take your eyes off the road.
The Word of God is quick and powerfull
www.therocketshop.blogspot.com

David Redszus
Guru
Guru
Posts: 6203
Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2007 9:27 am
Location: Chicago
Contact:

Re: recommendation for wideband meter for carbs

Post by David Redszus » Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:52 am

prairiehotrodder wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:48 pm
I have the AEM failsafe with data logging. The data logging is nice because if you are tuning WOT at the track you don't have to take your eyes off the road.
If you add a throttle position sensor to your logger, you would be able to tune partial throttle mixture which is very difficult and seldom done.

kimosabi
Pro
Pro
Posts: 260
Joined: Sat Feb 22, 2014 5:01 pm

Re: recommendation for wideband meter for carbs

Post by kimosabi » Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:49 am

Daytona Sensors wego 3

Coloradoracer
Pro
Pro
Posts: 478
Joined: Sun Mar 21, 2010 9:48 pm
Location: Conifer, Colorado
Contact:

Re: recommendation for wideband meter for carbs

Post by Coloradoracer » Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:07 am

Innovate LM2. I happen to have one for sale as well if you're interested. Pm me if so.
Mark Goulette
Owner/Driver of the Livin' The Dream rear engine dragster
Speed kills but it's better than going slow!
http://www.livinthedreamracing.com
Authorized Amsoil Retailer

BigBlocksOnTop2
Pro
Pro
Posts: 411
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2013 12:03 pm
Location: Chancellorsville Battle Field, Chancellorsville, Virginia

Re: recommendation for wideband meter for carbs

Post by BigBlocksOnTop2 » Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:34 am

I have Zietronics. A bung in header pipe off the head. Pain to move it around but I collect data from each cylinder. There's a big difference on a dual plane intake I will say.

F-BIRD'88
Guru
Guru
Posts: 6041
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 6:56 pm
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: recommendation for wideband meter for carbs

Post by F-BIRD'88 » Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:07 pm

NTK Powerdex AFX Gen 2 AFR gauge.
https://www.jegs.com/i/NGK-Spark-Plugs/ ... 7/10002/-1

I don't have this as I use a heated Narrow band setup but for wideband this is what I recomend.

Tuner
Guru
Guru
Posts: 2035
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 5:26 am

Re: recommendation for wideband meter for carbs

Post by Tuner » Mon Jun 11, 2018 3:12 pm

Innovate LM-2 has the most flexibility, can be used as just an A/F gauge but it is also a 32 channel data recorder with ability to log RPM, TPS, MAP (vacuum), EGT, etc, on and on, whatever you would need to tune an engine with carburetors or EFI. LM-2 has four built-in analog inputs plus RPM, which is plenty for adding TPS and MAP, but other Innovate devices can expand the number of channels to 32 if you want more information than you need.

https://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/lm2.php

For a simple A/F gauge, the MTX-L is my choice. The LED display is easy to read. For simple drivability tuning just using a vacuum guage and A/F display, if you don't want to data record, the MTX-L is simple and easy.

https://www.innovatemotorsports.com/pro ... l_plus.php

I use one or the other of these nearly every time I tune carbs, along with other Innovate accessories like the RPM Clamp to get an induction RPM input for the LM-2 if the car doesn't have a CD box with dedicated RPM output which can be wired direct to the RPM input.

Like David Redszus mentioned a few posts back, combining TPS and MAP with A/F is extremely useful to really dial in part-throttle tuning, which is where you accomplish minimum fuel consumption. WOT is easy, tuning level ground and light acceleration is where you gain the best fuel economy and maximum engine life by dialing in the minimum fuel necessary for the light load.

User avatar
bigblockmopar
Member
Member
Posts: 118
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:53 pm
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

Re: recommendation for wideband meter for carbs

Post by bigblockmopar » Mon Jun 11, 2018 3:32 pm

I've got a pair of Innovate MTX-L's.
Use one of them somewhat permanent in my daily driven propane powered '73 Dodge Dart, the other one (together with the 1st one) is used as a pair occassionaly on a rollercammed 496ci bigblock Mopar with vintage longram intakes. If one engine needs 2 AFR-gauges than this one is it.

Only issue I have is the O2-sensors don't live long.
The one in my daily is on it's 2nd or 3rd sensor I believe. Some time after startup the sensor starts to give funky readings and the gauge then goes into error-mode.

cjperformance
Guru
Guru
Posts: 2924
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2008 7:20 am
Location: South Australia

Re: recommendation for wideband meter for carbs

Post by cjperformance » Mon Jun 11, 2018 5:46 pm

MTX-L , i have fitted many these to customers cars, when they ask 'do i need a dyno tune' i say no, invest in a wb02 and you have more than the dyno guy can give you and it cheaper!
I have them on n/a, turbo, sc( and LPG n/a and turbo ). Never had to replace one due to failure , never had a sensor fail. Great units.
Craig.

Tuner
Guru
Guru
Posts: 2035
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 5:26 am

Re: recommendation for wideband meter for carbs

Post by Tuner » Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:28 pm

bigblockmopar wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 3:32 pm
I've got a pair of Innovate MTX-L's.
Use one of them somewhat permanent in my daily driven propane powered '73 Dodge Dart, the other one (together with the 1st one) is used as a pair occassionaly on a rollercammed 496ci bigblock Mopar with vintage longram intakes. If one engine needs 2 AFR-gauges than this one is it.

Only issue I have is the O2-sensors don't live long.
The one in my daily is on it's 2nd or 3rd sensor I believe. Some time after startup the sensor starts to give funky readings and the gauge then goes into error-mode.
I was having an occasional E-8 on my LM-2 when it was connected to the vehicle battery with an extension cord I made with alligator clamps, a cigarette lighter socket and 16 ga. wire. I made another with an old household extension cord with 14 ga. wire and now it doesn't throw the E=8 error code. I don't understand exactly why it didn't give the E-9 code, which is for low voltage. The E-8 is "Sensor Timing error (typically a damaged sensor)". It occurred more often with two of the several sensors I have, which are the oldest of the bunch, but it hasn't happened with them using the larger gauge extension cord.

I can tell you what kills sensors is if they are not protected from rain water splashing on them when they are hot, or if you are tuning E-85 and forget to turn of the controller while you're changing jets and then you start the engine with a puddle of fuel in the intake and a big glob of that E-85 hits the hot sensors.
Last edited by Tuner on Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

joe 90
Guru
Guru
Posts: 2465
Joined: Tue May 27, 2014 4:02 am
Location: The land of the long white cloud

Re: recommendation for wideband meter for carbs

Post by joe 90 » Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:35 pm

cjperformance wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 5:46 pm
MTX-L , i have fitted many these to customers cars, when they ask 'do i need a dyno tune' i say no, invest in a wb02 and you have more than the dyno guy can give you and it cheaper!
I have them on n/a, turbo, sc( and LPG n/a and turbo ). Never had to replace one due to failure , never had a sensor fail. Great units.

Unfortunately when the sensor starts to read wrong, you won't know...........as they all do over time, they have a limited life span.


You can't go wrong with a bosch NB sensor that's been previously bench tested (plenty free ones in junkyards), use that alongside whatever WB you've got .
WB sensors are accurate at the lean side of lambda 1. They're nowhere near as accurate as everyone tries to make out when richer than lambda 1.
That's where the NB comes in....as a backup. Used with a voltmeter.



Fitting such things to customers cars and not seeing them again........it's not the same as using them on your own cars and using them over a period of many years.
prairiehotrodder wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:48 pm
I have the AEM failsafe with data logging. The data logging is nice because if you are tuning WOT at the track you don't have to take your eyes off the road.
A failsafe isn't a failsafe if it can't detect knock.

csx7031
New Member
New Member
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2011 1:55 pm
Location: Mustang, Oklahoma

Re: recommendation for wideband meter for carbs

Post by csx7031 » Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:40 pm

My thanks to all who responded, it is appreciated. It seems everyone likes what they have. Has anyone tried more than one AFRM and thought one was better than the other? The replacement sensors for the NGK/NTK unit cost more than the others. Any reason that makes them more accurate? Thanks for schooling me on this topic. Chuck

Post Reply