A dream part you wish for!

General engine tech -- Drag Racing to Circle Track

Moderator: Team

427dart
Expert
Expert
Posts: 659
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2015 3:23 pm

Re: A dream part you wish for!

Post by 427dart » Sat Jun 09, 2018 7:05 pm

Mike Laws wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 5:39 pm
As a carb-guy: This device is outstanding: https://www.knfilters.com/eci

Paired with a twin blade carburetor is the dream combination.
Now that is a very trick setup! I had not heard of this unit before.

User avatar
MadBill
Guru
Guru
Posts: 13305
Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2005 10:41 am
Location: The Great White North

Re: A dream part you wish for!

Post by MadBill » Sat Jun 09, 2018 7:42 pm

I don't get it. A simple electric choke includes essential fast idle provision, which is absent from the K&N device. Also jump in, turn the key straight to crank mode..., what kind of signal does a stone-cold WBEGO output? (Or do you need to wait 60 sec., like for cold weather starting an old glow plug-equipped diesel?) :-k
Felix, qui potuit rerum cognscere causas.

Happy is he who can discover the cause of things.

1989TransAm
Guru
Guru
Posts: 7191
Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2007 8:43 pm
Location: Cypress, California

Re: A dream part you wish for!

Post by 1989TransAm » Sat Jun 09, 2018 7:52 pm

paulzig wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 5:01 pm
Electronically controlled valvetrain, you just program in the valve path and you can have whatever cam you want that wont hit the piston.
Now that is something I would be interested in. :D

Newold1
Guru
Guru
Posts: 1236
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2016 9:50 am

Re: A dream part you wish for!

Post by Newold1 » Sat Jun 09, 2018 9:11 pm

This should have been done 15-20 years ago BUT IT'S NEVER TO LATE FOR A GREAT IDEA!

I would like to see one of the bigger US or even Chinese aluminum casting companies start casting a symmetrical high port (nice Oval ports) BBC cylinder head in a 320CC port CNC'able to 380CC or so ports with a 11-14 degree valve angle (intake- 3-4 degree cant) that can run simple stud rocker arms or shaft rockers with a 80-90CC fastburn chamber. The heads need to have a cast high port spider intake manifold that is center split for simple inside porting, a 4500 or up to 2000cc throttle body and bosses drilled when ordered for injectors. The heads need to sell bare for about $1500 per pair as cast adding $500 for CNC'ing and intake about $400-450 as cast. These heads should flow in 320cc at about 400cfm with a 2.30" valve @.700 lift and up over 500cfm when CNC'd to 380-400cc. ith 2.40" valve. I know Competition Induction out of Australia has theirs but the damn things are just to expensive for the big aftermarket!

Starting with one base casting on the head and intake with optional added cost CNC'ing they could produce them in large quantities and the BBC engine builders and aftermarket performance users would buy these up like candy. I can see no reason why some of these aftermarket heads should be costing $3500 - $5000 a pair when $2500 to $3000 can get the job done when the quantities produced and sold can have big numbers to keep the coast of base castings down. It's a shame someone like Edelbrock or those Chinese casting importers have not seen the huge potential here instead of bashing each other over the head with 50 year old "good port - bad port aftermarket heads or having some of the other aftermarket limited production head makers producing very expensive versions and then still needed lots of expensive aftermarket porters to get these heads even close to what a symmetrical port set will do. Brodix got closer with the SR20's but the damn things with a special intake are over the top with costs!

Well that's my thought on BBC's but I don't think it should be a dream, maybe it's time for some market reality!! :wink: JMHO

paulzig
Pro
Pro
Posts: 430
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2008 6:29 am
Location: Australia

Re: A dream part you wish for!

Post by paulzig » Sun Jun 10, 2018 1:26 am

Mike Laws wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 5:39 pm
As a carb-guy: This device is outstanding: https://www.knfilters.com/eci

Paired with a twin blade carburetor is the dream combination.
Why not just go straight to the multi port EFI? Gets rid of the carburetor altogether :)

Belgian1979
Guru
Guru
Posts: 3665
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2011 11:34 am
Location: Belgium - Koersel

Re: A dream part you wish for!

Post by Belgian1979 » Sun Jun 10, 2018 2:45 am

electric valve operation with a way to program the operation electronical (VVT) for a SBC.

joe 90
Guru
Guru
Posts: 2477
Joined: Tue May 27, 2014 4:02 am
Location: The land of the long white cloud

Re: A dream part you wish for!

Post by joe 90 » Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:15 am

paulzig wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 1:26 am
Mike Laws wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 5:39 pm
As a carb-guy: This device is outstanding: https://www.knfilters.com/eci

Paired with a twin blade carburetor is the dream combination.
Why not just go straight to the multi port EFI? Gets rid of the carburetor altogether :)
Or just convert to LPG or CNG and have it running cleaner too.

paulzig
Pro
Pro
Posts: 430
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2008 6:29 am
Location: Australia

Re: A dream part you wish for!

Post by paulzig » Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:23 am

joe 90 wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:15 am

Or just convert to LPG or CNG and have it running cleaner too.
Tried that once... didnt like the LPG.

I was taking the piss, I know he's a carb guy...

Geoff2
Expert
Expert
Posts: 856
Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2015 4:36 pm
Location: Australia

Re: A dream part you wish for!

Post by Geoff2 » Sun Jun 10, 2018 5:45 am

For someone to re-make the original Competition Series Thermoquad carbs; they came in 850 & 1000 cfm sizes.

paulzig
Pro
Pro
Posts: 430
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2008 6:29 am
Location: Australia

Re: A dream part you wish for!

Post by paulzig » Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:00 am

Geoff2 wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 5:45 am
For someone to re-make the original Competition Series Thermoquad carbs; they came in 850 & 1000 cfm sizes.
They look like an elephant took a dump on the top of your intake manifold though :)

User avatar
bigblockmopar
Member
Member
Posts: 119
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:53 pm
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

Re: A dream part you wish for!

Post by bigblockmopar » Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:13 am

Like a Holley Sniper carb comes close in looks... :D

In this day of 3D printing it shouldn't be that hard to fab new bodies. I thought someone already repopped new ones?
Although 3D printing would probably not even be cost effective when someone in China can fart out these carb bodies for 99 cents a piece.

A 'digital' Thermoquad "2.0" would be cool imo, combined EFI and stuff.
Retro-fit in place of your old Thermo-bog.

novadude
Guru
Guru
Posts: 1258
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2007 3:24 pm
Location: Shippensburg, PA

Re: A dream part you wish for!

Post by novadude » Sun Jun 10, 2018 10:31 am

Other than maybe being easier to tune, I am struggling to see the benefit of the "carburetor injection" system posted above. With careful tuning, you can get a conventional carb to work well in cold temps, have a good A/F at cruise and WOT, etc. I guess it's easier to just make the carb lean everywhere and do the rest witha a laptop, but ~$700 can buy a lot of jets, number drills, carb gaskets, etc.

Mike Laws
Pro
Pro
Posts: 384
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2006 9:02 am
Location: Florida
Contact:

Re: A dream part you wish for!

Post by Mike Laws » Sun Jun 10, 2018 2:05 pm

MadBill wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 7:42 pm
I don't get it. A simple electric choke includes essential fast idle provision, which is absent from the K&N device. Also jump in, turn the key straight to crank mode..., what kind of signal does a stone-cold WBEGO output? (Or do you need to wait 60 sec., like for cold weather starting an old glow plug-equipped diesel?) :-k
K&N focuses on the cold start feature of this device; which works well. (Fast idle not needed, no cold weather delay...) It starts like full-on efi. No pumping before or after starting.

The real advantage to this thing is the overall lean control via AFR. Basically - set your lean threshold and the injector(s) activate when the engine goes leaner than the setting and deactivates above the setting. It lets you get more aggressive with your tune while providing a 'safety net' - whether it be for power and/or mileage...
Mike Laws
Get'm Garage
Home of the Twin Blade Series carburetors, Titan Metering Blocks, Piston Cooling System, Electronic Carburetor Injection (ECI) and more...

Mike Laws
Pro
Pro
Posts: 384
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2006 9:02 am
Location: Florida
Contact:

A dream part you wish for!

Post by Mike Laws » Sun Jun 10, 2018 2:10 pm

paulzig wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 1:26 am
Mike Laws wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 5:39 pm
As a carb-guy: This device is outstanding: https://www.knfilters.com/eci

Paired with a twin blade carburetor is the dream combination.
Why not just go straight to the multi port EFI? Gets rid of the carburetor altogether :)
Well; there's many of us that wish to keep the carb(s) due to their advantages, but also like some of the advantages of EFI. This device blends the 2 technologies nicely.
Mike Laws
Get'm Garage
Home of the Twin Blade Series carburetors, Titan Metering Blocks, Piston Cooling System, Electronic Carburetor Injection (ECI) and more...

Mike Laws
Pro
Pro
Posts: 384
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2006 9:02 am
Location: Florida
Contact:

Re: A dream part you wish for!

Post by Mike Laws » Sun Jun 10, 2018 2:40 pm

novadude wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 10:31 am
Other than maybe being easier to tune, I am struggling to see the benefit of the "carburetor injection" system posted above. With careful tuning, you can get a conventional carb to work well in cold temps, have a good A/F at cruise and WOT, etc. I guess it's easier to just make the carb lean everywhere and do the rest witha a laptop, but ~$700 can buy a lot of jets, number drills, carb gaskets, etc.
You're right. It is easier to lean the carb and use the laptop, however I've been to 3 dyno sessions, a race track test and street testing with this thing. 2 of the dyno sessions were with an engine that had professionally built 4-bbl carburetors with a known, good tune and in both cases; the ECI installation produced more power & tq. The track test was on a well known carb builder's methanol bracket car and it picked up .05 sec and more than 1 mph on the first run with a bit of a guess at the eci setup.

I still enjoy tuning carburetors with jets, gaskets, etc - but I don't think I can beat a good carb that has an eci...
Mike Laws
Get'm Garage
Home of the Twin Blade Series carburetors, Titan Metering Blocks, Piston Cooling System, Electronic Carburetor Injection (ECI) and more...

Post Reply