Don Terrill’s Speed-Talk

Warp Speed wrote: ↑Sat Jun 09, 2018 7:34 am

Keith Morganstein wrote: ↑Fri Jun 08, 2018 6:49 pm I had to freshen up a set of heads on the strongest running circle track engine in its class. 034 Bowtie heads, heavily angle milled, 2.05” valves and it had 52* seats. This engine beat all others so it must prove 52* seats are better!

Maybe not proof, but definalty a trend that needs to be considered!

DrillDawg wrote: ↑Sat Jun 09, 2018 12:06 pm I wonder what people like Bob Mullins and Brownfield would think about air flow advancements of today compared to what they thought was the trick of the day in their hay day.

Frankshaft wrote: ↑Sat Jun 09, 2018 10:53 am

midnightbluS10 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 09, 2018 6:10 am

Frankshaft wrote: ↑Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:12 pm

Do you have a formula for that Stan? It might be helpful.

That's funny right there, I don't care who you are.

What's funnier is that you somehow pulled that "no one in this thread was qualified... " from "...contact Darin Morgan...because no one will post the info you need..."


That's just the kind of environment that has been created here. Starting to get too much like yellowbullet with the pissing and moaning and especially the "holier-than-thou" attitudes that have emerged lately. The whole point of forums is to share information. But lately, it's more of a pissing match here than any sort of info sharing or progression of the sport.


Pretty sad. This was the one place that didn't have that bs until lately. I can understand why I haven't seen a lot of the older regulars posting here anymore. And why people are leaving.

The first point, the answer is there is no answer for this. That's the point. I can tell you what Darin Morgan would tell Groberts, stick to the 45 degree seat, and he would say, ok, thanks. And that would be that. As far as "sharing" usually Darin doesn't just say, do this that or the other thing, he gives hints, ideas, trends and highlights some findings from some of his testing, which can be very helpful. Take it for what its worth, try it or don't. Some of the best teachers I had, didn't GIVE me the answer, but hints ideas and thoughts, and then left it up to ME to LEARN. That's what a good teacher does. In this day and age, everyone feels "entitled", just GIVE me the answer, I want it NOW, and that's not a dig to you, so don't take it that way.
Its been said a dozen times in the other thread, and even this one now, that there is NO REAL CUT IN STONE answer its all a comprimise. For me, Groberts is on the borderline, with head and camshaft. If he is going to do additional porting, and a hair more duration, I would do it. If you look at that Hot Rod article, that has been linked 3 or 4 times, the average guy, info like that is all they have. There could be arguments for using the 35 seat, and arguments for using the 50, for THAT combo. He used the "stock" 45 degree seat that came from gm, so, its possible some revised 45 degree seat could have been the best "compromise" The 50 degree profile he used, I didn't think was right, and neither was the 45, but it showed the trend, on how it works exactly OPPOSITE of what everyone thinks, like I have said 20 times on here at least, about low lift flow enhancing valve jobs, and steep seats and top cuts. That probably leaves him even more confused, I bet if he asked the guy doing the tests on that particular ONE test, he wouldn't be able to give a complete answer, because the testing was far from complete. But, it showed how low lift flow hurts tq, but can help the engine hang on past peak, and it showed how reducing it, helped tq and power in the midrange, and then fell off on top, because the engine saw that seat profile as less duration/overlap for the same cam, that was quite small. The real answer, is, you can get "creative" with seat profiles to compliment a given application. The when, the why's and the how's are not exactly clear for every combo.

Frankshaft wrote: ↑Sat Jun 09, 2018 1:07 pm You just can NOT stop arguing. Wow. I think you need Stan's reading comprehension formula too.

Frankshaft wrote: ↑Sat Jun 09, 2018 12:17 pm The funny part, with a pro stock engine, it might only be .009 off the pace, and you were #26, and look like a chump, but, .009, come on, it takes you longer to blink!!

Frankshaft wrote: ↑Sat Jun 09, 2018 10:53 amThe first point, the answer is there is no answer for this. That's the point. I can tell you what Darin Morgan would tell Groberts, stick to the 45 degree seat, and he would say, ok, thanks. And that would be that. As far as "sharing" usually Darin doesn't just say, do this that or the other thing, he gives hints, ideas, trends and highlights some findings from some of his testing, which can be very helpful. Take it for what its worth, try it or don't. Some of the best teachers I had, didn't GIVE me the answer, but hints ideas and thoughts, and then left it up to ME to LEARN. That's what a good teacher does. In this day and age, everyone feels "entitled", just GIVE me the answer, I want it NOW, and that's not a dig to you, so don't take it that way.
Its been said a dozen times in the other thread, and even this one now, that there is NO REAL CUT IN STONE answer its all a comprimise.

For me, Groberts is on the borderline, with head and camshaft. If he is going to do additional porting, and a hair more duration, I would do it. If you look at that Hot Rod article, that has been linked 3 or 4 times, the average guy, info like that is all they have. There could be arguments for using the 35 seat, and arguments for using the 50, for THAT combo. He used the "stock" 45 degree seat that came from gm, so, its possible some revised 45 degree seat could have been the best "compromise" The 50 degree profile he used, I didn't think was right, and neither was the 45, but it showed the trend, on how it works exactly OPPOSITE of what everyone thinks, like I have said 20 times on here at least, about low lift flow enhancing valve jobs, and steep seats and top cuts. That probably leaves him even more confused, I bet if he asked the guy doing the tests on that particular ONE test, he wouldn't be able to give a complete answer, because the testing was far from complete. But, it showed how low lift flow hurts tq, but can help the engine hang on past peak, and it showed how reducing it, helped tq and power in the midrange, and then fell off on top, because the engine saw that seat profile as less duration/overlap for the same cam, that was quite small. The real answer, is, you can get "creative" with seat profiles to compliment a given application. The when, the why's and the how's are not exactly clear for every combo.