If 50 are good, what about 55?

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Re: If 50 are good, what about 55?

Post by 77cruiser » Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:19 pm

Oh Oh they're to make another Geico commercial. #-o #-o
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Re: If 50 are good, what about 55?

Post by Frankshaft » Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:39 pm

A little birdie told me, believe it or not, that the night rider trans am had 55 degree seats. :wink: And we all know how fast that car was.

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Re: If 50 are good, what about 55?

Post by GARY C » Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:41 pm

Frankshaft wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:39 pm
A little birdie told me, believe it or not, that the night rider trans am had 55 degree seats. :wink: And we all know how fast that car was.
Didn't Speed Racer run 30's?
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Re: If 50 are good, what about 55?

Post by groberts101 » Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:42 pm

GARY C wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:04 pm
groberts101 wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:34 pm
CGT wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:29 pm
That's got 55° written all over it!!!! :lol:
The delusionally twisted part of me wants to believe you.. but that laughing emoji has me concerned you may not be serious. :^o :lol:
I would say from the picture of the chamber you would be starting with potential you bon't get in SBC or LS engines unless you go outside the norm.
Thanks for the serious and coherent reply, Gary. When money and championship points are on the line to get to work on time.. every little bit counts! :lol:

The other thing I consider(based on my smaller window of understanding on this subject) as being a better matchup to potentially utilizing steeper seats with these particular heads.. is the fact that the flatter/revised valve angles stands up the valves to give a higher apex and better overall shape to the SSR. So, wouldn't.. or at least couldn't.. one consider that to be another important factor/s in making the jump over towards steeper seat profiles/bigger choke size work well on this type of cylinder head?

IOW's.. the higher intake port entry point along with short turn height/shape improvements, rotated valves angles allowing straighter port, and better chamber design.. then allows the steeper seat profiles to up the airflow and port velocity ante without as many shortcomings? :?:

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Re: If 50 are good, what about 55?

Post by GARY C » Fri Jun 08, 2018 5:00 pm

groberts101 wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:42 pm
GARY C wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:04 pm
groberts101 wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:34 pm


The delusionally twisted part of me wants to believe you.. but that laughing emoji has me concerned you may not be serious. :^o :lol:
I would say from the picture of the chamber you would be starting with potential you bon't get in SBC or LS engines unless you go outside the norm.
Thanks for the serious and coherent reply, Gary. When money and championship points are on the line to get to work on time.. every little bit counts! :lol:

The other thing I consider(based on my smaller window of understanding on this subject) as being a better matchup to potentially utilizing steeper seats with these particular heads.. is the fact that the flatter/revised valve angles stands up the valves to give a higher apex and better overall shape to the SSR. So, wouldn't.. or at least couldn't.. one consider that to be another important factor/s in making the jump over towards steeper seat profiles/bigger choke size work well on this type of cylinder head?

IOW's.. the higher intake port entry point along with short turn height/shape improvements, rotated valves angles allowing straighter port, and better chamber design.. then allows the steeper seat profiles to up the airflow and port velocity ante without as many shortcomings? :?:
Sadly the people familiar with this type of situation will not post anything helpful to you, I personally would call Darin Morgan and offer to pay him for consultation, he may not accept your money but he would shoot you straight on chamber shape and if he had any experience with the head, If not he probably could direct you to who does.
Please Note!
THE ABOVE POST IN NO WAY REFLECTS THE VIEWS OF SPEED TALK OR IT'S MEMBER AND SHOULD BE VIEWED AS ENTERTAINMENT ONLY...Thanks, The Management!

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Re: If 50 are good, what about 55?

Post by statsystems » Fri Jun 08, 2018 5:10 pm

groberts101 wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:28 pm
Frankshaft wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:16 pm
Care to discuss? Lol.
LOL.. at my age I barely have enough balls left under me to use 50's on my current street project.. let alone 55's! :mrgreen:

OTOH, it's only time and money and barring some tragic disease or life altering event, at least I can gain one of those back later on. So, I'll counter that offer with.. what about 52's over 50's? Still doable or any specific advantage for an occasional play toy type street/strip car seeing maybe 2-3K miles/year with rare occasions for work transportation?

8.2" deck 310 SBF(3"x4.060") around 11.6:1 SCR with ton's-o-tricks that low budget guys like me aren't supposed to know, worry, or really care about 8)

Hand ported, angle milled, high-ported(flange plated) Trick Flow 170cc 11R cnc heads w/ 11°/13°(ending up somewhere around 10.xx/12.xx I/E valve angles after angle mill), custom 2.02"/1.54" hollow stemmed tulip shaped valves, and relatively shallow clover style 48cc chambers(53cc stock)

Chopped up and plated 351W Edelbrock Airgap with welded fully divided plenum spacer, not sure on carb size(650-750 Holley) but E85 converted

Mike Jones Hydro Roller 274/279(224/229 @.050)/.612"/.578"(.340" lobe running 1.8/1.7 rockers) w/ NOS Morel .904" solid rollers underneath Conical springs and Ti retainers

Innovators West belt drive w/ under-driven alternator and e-water pump/e-fans only

You know.. just your bare bones basic lightweight street car kinda deal. :^o

Only ordered them last night but here's a stock unmilled 53cc chamber pic to give reference for valve seat design input. And that spark plug looks like it's gonna be pretty tight after a bit of heavier milling.

TFS_TW_170_11R_X_23__16293.1466788796.1280.1280.jpg

Any input towards acceptable valve seat designs/valve profiles on this particular head and application?

I'd put a 50 on that so fast you wouldn't even see me set up the tooling.

You asked if a 50 is good why not a 52? I answered that already in the other thread. I have seen very few heads that like a 55 N/A. If it has an intake port that is very high, it may take a 55 N/A.

So my answer is...50 on N/A stuff and 55 on anything with power adders except as noted above. Others may use a 55 more, but I've found what I've already posted. That's why I don't bother with 48 and 52* cutters. If it's N/A and likes the 52 it will probably do better with the 55

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Re: If 50 are good, what about 55?

Post by Frankshaft » Fri Jun 08, 2018 5:32 pm

GARY C wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 5:00 pm
groberts101 wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:42 pm
GARY C wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:04 pm


I would say from the picture of the chamber you would be starting with potential you bon't get in SBC or LS engines unless you go outside the norm.
Thanks for the serious and coherent reply, Gary. When money and championship points are on the line to get to work on time.. every little bit counts! :lol:

The other thing I consider(based on my smaller window of understanding on this subject) as being a better matchup to potentially utilizing steeper seats with these particular heads.. is the fact that the flatter/revised valve angles stands up the valves to give a higher apex and better overall shape to the SSR. So, wouldn't.. or at least couldn't.. one consider that to be another important factor/s in making the jump over towards steeper seat profiles/bigger choke size work well on this type of cylinder head?

IOW's.. the higher intake port entry point along with short turn height/shape improvements, rotated valves angles allowing straighter port, and better chamber design.. then allows the steeper seat profiles to up the airflow and port velocity ante without as many shortcomings? :?:
Sadly the people familiar with this type of situation will not post anything helpful to you, I personally would call Darin Morgan and offer to pay him for consultation, he may not accept your money but he would shoot you straight on chamber shape and if he had any experience with the head, If not he probably could direct you to who does.
You started out so good in this thread, and then had to done did that. So, no one in this thread, or "the other" thread are qualified to say? Everything everyone else said is not true, wrong, or they don't know? Really?

I started this thread to lighten the mood, and show I have a sense of humor and not to take it so serious, which I thought you got

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Re: If 50 are good, what about 55?

Post by GARY C » Fri Jun 08, 2018 5:39 pm

Frankshaft wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 5:32 pm
GARY C wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 5:00 pm
groberts101 wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:42 pm


Thanks for the serious and coherent reply, Gary. When money and championship points are on the line to get to work on time.. every little bit counts! :lol:

The other thing I consider(based on my smaller window of understanding on this subject) as being a better matchup to potentially utilizing steeper seats with these particular heads.. is the fact that the flatter/revised valve angles stands up the valves to give a higher apex and better overall shape to the SSR. So, wouldn't.. or at least couldn't.. one consider that to be another important factor/s in making the jump over towards steeper seat profiles/bigger choke size work well on this type of cylinder head?

IOW's.. the higher intake port entry point along with short turn height/shape improvements, rotated valves angles allowing straighter port, and better chamber design.. then allows the steeper seat profiles to up the airflow and port velocity ante without as many shortcomings? :?:
Sadly the people familiar with this type of situation will not post anything helpful to you, I personally would call Darin Morgan and offer to pay him for consultation, he may not accept your money but he would shoot you straight on chamber shape and if he had any experience with the head, If not he probably could direct you to who does.
You started out so good in this thread, and then had to done did that. So, no one in this thread, or "the other" thread are qualified to say? Everything everyone else said is not true, wrong, or they don't know? Really?

I started this thread to lighten the mood, and show I have a sense of humor and not to take it so serious, which I thought you got
I would think if you had any cylinder head experience you would be experienced to say... So what does that tell you?
Personally if I had that head I would want to consult several people to find out first what top cut would best merge with that chamber and the from there I would look at the angles below that... It probably would require a 3rd head for testing and I don't mean the one in your pants. :)
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THE ABOVE POST IN NO WAY REFLECTS THE VIEWS OF SPEED TALK OR IT'S MEMBER AND SHOULD BE VIEWED AS ENTERTAINMENT ONLY...Thanks, The Management!

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Re: If 50 are good, what about 55?

Post by Keith Morganstein » Fri Jun 08, 2018 6:49 pm

I had to freshen up a set of heads on the strongest running circle track engine in its class. 034 Bowtie heads, heavily angle milled, 2.05” valves and it had 52* seats. This engine beat all others so it must prove 52* seats are better!
Automotive Machining, cylinder head rebuilding, engine building. Old school shop, semi-retired moonlighter. Can't seem to quit #-o

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Re: If 50 are good, what about 55?

Post by Stan Weiss » Fri Jun 08, 2018 6:59 pm

Frankshaft wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 5:32 pm
GARY C wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 5:00 pm
groberts101 wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:42 pm


Thanks for the serious and coherent reply, Gary. When money and championship points are on the line to get to work on time.. every little bit counts! :lol:

The other thing I consider(based on my smaller window of understanding on this subject) as being a better matchup to potentially utilizing steeper seats with these particular heads.. is the fact that the flatter/revised valve angles stands up the valves to give a higher apex and better overall shape to the SSR. So, wouldn't.. or at least couldn't.. one consider that to be another important factor/s in making the jump over towards steeper seat profiles/bigger choke size work well on this type of cylinder head?

IOW's.. the higher intake port entry point along with short turn height/shape improvements, rotated valves angles allowing straighter port, and better chamber design.. then allows the steeper seat profiles to up the airflow and port velocity ante without as many shortcomings? :?:
Sadly the people familiar with this type of situation will not post anything helpful to you, I personally would call Darin Morgan and offer to pay him for consultation, he may not accept your money but he would shoot you straight on chamber shape and if he had any experience with the head, If not he probably could direct you to who does.
You started out so good in this thread, and then had to done did that. So, no one in this thread, or "the other" thread are qualified to say? Everything everyone else said is not true, wrong, or they don't know? Really?

I started this thread to lighten the mood, and show I have a sense of humor and not to take it so serious, which I thought you got
I would say someone needs to work on their reading comprehension. :shock:

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Re: If 50 are good, what about 55?

Post by digger » Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:12 pm

why not run a 30, 45, 60 valve job then get 3 different valves one with 30* , one with 45 and one with 60 you could run it on the same head with different levels of "sunkeness" and of course the diameters would be different. howz that for a test

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Re: If 50 are good, what about 55?

Post by Frankshaft » Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:12 pm

Stan Weiss wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 6:59 pm
Frankshaft wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 5:32 pm
GARY C wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 5:00 pm


Sadly the people familiar with this type of situation will not post anything helpful to you, I personally would call Darin Morgan and offer to pay him for consultation, he may not accept your money but he would shoot you straight on chamber shape and if he had any experience with the head, If not he probably could direct you to who does.
You started out so good in this thread, and then had to done did that. So, no one in this thread, or "the other" thread are qualified to say? Everything everyone else said is not true, wrong, or they don't know? Really?

I started this thread to lighten the mood, and show I have a sense of humor and not to take it so serious, which I thought you got
I would say someone needs to work on their reading comprehension. :shock:

Stan
Do you have a formula for that Stan? It might be helpful. :mrgreen:

That's funny right there, I don't care who you are.

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Re: If 50 are good, what about 55?

Post by Keith Morganstein » Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:16 pm

digger wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:12 pm
why not run a 30, 45, 60 valve job then get 3 different valves one with 30* , one with 45 and one with 60 you could run it on the same head with different levels of "sunkeness" and of course the diameters would be different. howz that for a test
I want that on each valve and each seat, three angles of seating contact so it has three times the seat, and three times the seat flow! Low lift, mid lift and high lift!
Automotive Machining, cylinder head rebuilding, engine building. Old school shop, semi-retired moonlighter. Can't seem to quit #-o

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Re: If 50 are good, what about 55?

Post by GARY C » Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:28 pm

Keith Morganstein wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:16 pm
digger wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:12 pm
why not run a 30, 45, 60 valve job then get 3 different valves one with 30* , one with 45 and one with 60 you could run it on the same head with different levels of "sunkeness" and of course the diameters would be different. howz that for a test
I want that on each valve and each seat, three angles of seating contact so it has three times the seat, and three times the seat flow! Low lift, mid lift and high lift!
You could get Schick to build you a 3 Blade valve for that really smooth close flow!
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THE ABOVE POST IN NO WAY REFLECTS THE VIEWS OF SPEED TALK OR IT'S MEMBER AND SHOULD BE VIEWED AS ENTERTAINMENT ONLY...Thanks, The Management!

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Re: If 50 are good, what about 55?

Post by gnicholson » Sat Jun 09, 2018 1:04 am

How bout a 4 valve per cyl head with one port with a 30 degree seat for low lift flow and one with a 55 degree seat optimised for high lift flow? Havent decided on the exh yet

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