If 50 are good, what about 55?

General engine tech -- Drag Racing to Circle Track

Moderator: Team

Frankshaft
Expert
Expert
Posts: 899
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2015 6:01 pm

If 50 are good, what about 55?

Post by Frankshaft » Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:16 pm

Care to discuss? Lol.

GARY C
Guru
Guru
Posts: 4627
Joined: Tue May 14, 2013 10:58 pm

Re: If 50 are good, what about 55?

Post by GARY C » Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:19 pm

Frankshaft wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:16 pm
Care to discuss? Lol.
It must be at least 5 better! Anything that kills low-lift flow will always make more power. just ask around.

Warp Speed
Guru
Guru
Posts: 2619
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2008 1:46 pm
Location: NC

Re: If 50 are good, what about 55?

Post by Warp Speed » Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:34 pm

I agree with the thread title! Lol

Warp Speed
Guru
Guru
Posts: 2619
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2008 1:46 pm
Location: NC

Re: If 50 are good, what about 55?

Post by Warp Speed » Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:34 pm

GARY C wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:19 pm
Frankshaft wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:16 pm
Care to discuss? Lol.
It must be at least 5 better! Anything that kills low-lift flow will always make more power. just ask around.
In general speaking.........true! =D>

GARY C
Guru
Guru
Posts: 4627
Joined: Tue May 14, 2013 10:58 pm

Re: If 50 are good, what about 55?

Post by GARY C » Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:40 pm

Warp Speed wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:34 pm
GARY C wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:19 pm
Frankshaft wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:16 pm
Care to discuss? Lol.
It must be at least 5 better! Anything that kills low-lift flow will always make more power. just ask around.
In general speaking.........true! =D>
Oddly enough most head work increases flow everywhere and almost always produces more power, It's all about timing the window area with the piston position, if not then we would only need one cam shaft for all engines.

User avatar
FC-Pilot
Pro
Pro
Posts: 288
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 2:23 pm
Location: Peoria, AZ
Contact:

Re: If 50 are good, what about 55?

Post by FC-Pilot » Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:12 pm

If less is more, just think how much more MORE would be.

Paul
"It's a fine line between clever and stupid." David St. Hubbins

Warp Speed
Guru
Guru
Posts: 2619
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2008 1:46 pm
Location: NC

Re: If 50 are good, what about 55?

Post by Warp Speed » Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:13 pm

GARY C wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:40 pm
Warp Speed wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:34 pm
GARY C wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:19 pm


It must be at least 5 better! Anything that kills low-lift flow will always make more power. just ask around.
In general speaking.........true! =D>
Oddly enough most head work increases flow everywhere and almost always produces more power, It's all about timing the window area with the piston position, if not then we would only need one cam shaft for all engines.
ALMOST always!
I, as some others have also, have seen flow increased, but power does not. How come?

And some flow you don't even bother to measure.......

gnicholson
Pro
Pro
Posts: 379
Joined: Tue May 06, 2008 9:59 pm
Location: kansas city mo

Re: If 50 are good, what about 55?

Post by gnicholson » Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:26 pm

Maybe you guys should skip right over increasing the valve angle and go straight to a spool valve :mrgreen:

groberts101
Guru
Guru
Posts: 1888
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2008 3:08 pm
Location: Minneapolis

Re: If 50 are good, what about 55?

Post by groberts101 » Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:28 pm

Frankshaft wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:16 pm
Care to discuss? Lol.
LOL.. at my age I barely have enough balls left under me to use 50's on my current street project.. let alone 55's! :mrgreen:

OTOH, it's only time and money and barring some tragic disease or life altering event, at least I can gain one of those back later on. So, I'll counter that offer with.. what about 52's over 50's? Still doable or any specific advantage for an occasional play toy type street/strip car seeing maybe 2-3K miles/year with rare occasions for work transportation?

8.2" deck 310 SBF(3"x4.060") around 11.6:1 SCR with ton's-o-tricks that low budget guys like me aren't supposed to know, worry, or really care about 8)

Hand ported, angle milled, high-ported(flange plated) Trick Flow 170cc 11R cnc heads w/ 11°/13°(ending up somewhere around 10.xx/12.xx I/E valve angles after angle mill), custom 2.02"/1.54" hollow stemmed tulip shaped valves, and relatively shallow clover style 48cc chambers(53cc stock)

Chopped up and plated 351W Edelbrock Airgap with welded fully divided plenum spacer, not sure on carb size(650-750 Holley) but E85 converted

Mike Jones Hydro Roller 274/279(224/229 @.050)/.612"/.578"(.340" lobe running 1.8/1.7 rockers) w/ NOS Morel .904" solid rollers underneath Conical springs and Ti retainers

Innovators West belt drive w/ under-driven alternator and e-water pump/e-fans only

You know.. just your bare bones basic lightweight street car kinda deal. :^o

Only ordered them last night but here's a stock unmilled 53cc chamber pic to give reference for valve seat design input. And that spark plug looks like it's gonna be pretty tight after a bit of heavier milling.
TFS_TW_170_11R_X_23__16293.1466788796.1280.1280.jpg
Any input towards acceptable valve seat designs/valve profiles on this particular head and application?
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Last edited by groberts101 on Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

CGT
Guru
Guru
Posts: 1232
Joined: Sun May 10, 2009 12:29 pm

Re: If 50 are good, what about 55?

Post by CGT » Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:29 pm

groberts101 wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:28 pm
Frankshaft wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:16 pm
Care to discuss? Lol.
LOL.. at my age I barely have enough balls left under me to use 50's on my current street project.. let alone 55's! :mrgreen:

OTOH, it's only time and money and barring some tragic disease or life altering event, at least I can gain one of those back later on. So, I'll counter that offer with.. what about 52's over 50's? Still doable or any specific advantage for an occasional play toy type street/strip car seeing maybe 2-3K miles/year with rare occasions for work transportation?

8.2" deck 310 SBF(3"x4.060") around 11.6:1 SCR with ton's-o-tricks that low budget guys like me aren't supposed to know, worry, or really care about 8)

Hand ported, angle milled, high-ported(flange plated) Trick Flow 170cc 11R cnc heads w/ 11°/13°(ending up somewhere around 10.xx/12.xx I/E valve angles after angle mill), custom 2.02"/1.54" hollow stemmed tulip shaped valves, and relatively shallow clover style 48cc chambers(53cc stock)

Chopped up and plated 351W Edelbrock Airgap with welded fully divided plenum spacer, not sure on carb size(650-750 Holley) but E85 converted

Mike Jones Hydro Roller 224/229 @.050/.612"/.578"(.340" lobe running 1.8/1.7 rockers) w/ NOS Morel .904" solid rollers underneath Conical springs and Ti retainers

Innovators West belt drive w/ under-driven alternator and e-water pump/e-fans only

You know.. just your bare bones basic lightweight street car kinda deal. :^o

Only ordered them last night but here's a stock unmilled 53cc chamber pic to give reference for valve seat design input. And that spark plug looks like it's gonna be pretty tight after a bit of heavier milling.

TFS_TW_170_11R_X_23__16293.1466788796.1280.1280.jpg

Any input towards acceptable valve seat designs/valve profiles on this particular head and application?
That's got 55° written all over it!!!! :lol:

GARY C
Guru
Guru
Posts: 4627
Joined: Tue May 14, 2013 10:58 pm

Re: If 50 are good, what about 55?

Post by GARY C » Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:31 pm

Warp Speed wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:13 pm
GARY C wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:40 pm
Warp Speed wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:34 pm


In general speaking.........true! =D>
Oddly enough most head work increases flow everywhere and almost always produces more power, It's all about timing the window area with the piston position, if not then we would only need one cam shaft for all engines.
ALMOST always!
I, as some others have also, have seen flow increased, but power does not. How come?

And some flow you don't even bother to measure.......
Care to give a presentage of ones that didn't vs ones that did? Considering the outcome of that vote would it disprove your argument or get you to rethink your position? I doubt it because you are standing on an "always" position from an "almost" stand point!

Is it possible that the flow your not willing to look at could hold the key to what your looking for?

I remember when people didn't bother to look at anything other than exhaust port flow, now most would tell you it they are not concerned with flow.

groberts101
Guru
Guru
Posts: 1888
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2008 3:08 pm
Location: Minneapolis

Re: If 50 are good, what about 55?

Post by groberts101 » Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:34 pm

CGT wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:29 pm
That's got 55° written all over it!!!! :lol:
The delusionally twisted part of me wants to believe you.. but that laughing emoji has me concerned you may not be serious. :^o :lol:

GARY C
Guru
Guru
Posts: 4627
Joined: Tue May 14, 2013 10:58 pm

Re: If 50 are good, what about 55?

Post by GARY C » Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:04 pm

groberts101 wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:34 pm
CGT wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:29 pm
That's got 55° written all over it!!!! :lol:
The delusionally twisted part of me wants to believe you.. but that laughing emoji has me concerned you may not be serious. :^o :lol:
I would say from the picture of the chamber you would be starting with potential you bon't get in SBC or LS engines unless you go outside the norm.

Frankshaft
Expert
Expert
Posts: 899
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2015 6:01 pm

Re: If 50 are good, what about 55?

Post by Frankshaft » Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:07 pm

FC-Pilot wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:12 pm
If less is more, just think how much more MORE would be.

Paul
Well, ask Captain Obvious, I bet he would know. After all, to quote him, : "If you travel as much as I do, then you travel a lot, because I do. " Is that sorta the same thing?

GARY C
Guru
Guru
Posts: 4627
Joined: Tue May 14, 2013 10:58 pm

Re: If 50 are good, what about 55?

Post by GARY C » Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:10 pm

Frankshaft wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:07 pm
FC-Pilot wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:12 pm
If less is more, just think how much more MORE would be.

Paul
Well, ask Captain Obvious, I bet he would know. After all, to quote him, : "If you travel as much as I do, then you travel a lot, because I do. " Is that sorta the same thing?
Isn't that one of those "fal·la·cy" thingys? :D

Post Reply