Flow bench results

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Scotthatch
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Re: Flow bench results

Post by Scotthatch » Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:17 pm

GARY C wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 1:00 pm
One thing being overlooked on SBC wave tuning is that most modern as cast parts have been designed with that factored in within the constraints of fitment, to fine tune that you would have to go to custom fabricated intake which is not legal in many racing bodies because of the possibility of dominating the class and there not cheap!
How could it be built in with different intakes and heads and camshaft closing points ??? That doesn't even make sense to me and I have never seen a listing that said our parts are tuned to the 4th harmonic and you need to shut the valve at 45 degrees to make use of it.....

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Re: Flow bench results

Post by GARY C » Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:25 pm

Scotthatch wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:17 pm
GARY C wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 1:00 pm
One thing being overlooked on SBC wave tuning is that most modern as cast parts have been designed with that factored in within the constraints of fitment, to fine tune that you would have to go to custom fabricated intake which is not legal in many racing bodies because of the possibility of dominating the class and there not cheap!
How could it be built in with different intakes and heads and camshaft closing points ??? That doesn't even make sense to me and I have never seen a listing that said our parts are tuned to the 4th harmonic and you need to shut the valve at 45 degrees to make use of it.....
Study the length and size of the average 23 degree single plane set up in relation to the ci and rpm they have been built around in conjunction with the wave tune that will fit in most cars (hood clearance may be necessary)
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THE ABOVE POST IN NO WAY REFLECTS THE VIEWS OF SPEED TALK OR IT'S MEMBER AND SHOULD BE VIEWED AS ENTERTAINMENT ONLY...Thanks, The Management!

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Re: Flow bench results

Post by randy331 » Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:01 pm

Scotthatch wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:39 am
randy331 wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:35 pm
Scotthatch wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:21 pm


What it shows is the potential of the engine power you can be lower if things are not correct ....

I posted lots of dyno tests where the HP was dead on

Mine is higher 60-70 HP higher than your math,
cgarb is lower.

Both were dyno tuned.


When engines that similar don't line up with a formula, it's the formula.

Have you ever went to a bigger cam and made less power ?
Have you ever seen a head that flowZ more cfm, make less power ?
Examples are out there of both, which means the math would be flawed if your using CFM and IVC to determine HP.

But if it always matches your engines, use it.

Randy


No the math looks dead on for your motor too ...

You did not give a lot of information on your build but you did say 290 cfm , intake duration about the same at 272 on 109 but you have more aggressive ramp and .100 more lift . So since I have specs for his cam I will go with it or a Z of 1.09 from the chart

At 2.46 HP per cfm and 290 cfm you made 713.4 HP

So 290cfm x 1.09 Z x .257 HP per cfm x 8 cylinders x 1.1 for running alcohol = 714.8

You do know alcohol is a power adder ......

As for his engine yes it should be higher ... one thing to note is as you go past 100 % port efficiency things have to be right ... in your case you have a groomed port With a moved pinch point and would guess good stortside and different valve angle ... all this helped you get to the number you did ..... lower there are problems to fix ..higher and you need more cfm or cam ....

Now if you wave tuned this engine how did you pick the induction events ? Or change the intake runner length and to what rpm did you tune to and how wide is that band? ...not talking exhaust side as I have already agreed there is power there that I am ignoring by choice... induction tuning is what I am asking

To put it simply, you have my engines, flowz and cam duration all mixed up.

And I have yet to run alcohol in any engine of mine.


I used your math, it doesn't match, and no one should expect such simple formulas to match.

You can believe what ever you want .


Randy

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Re: Flow bench results

Post by Warp Speed » Sat Jun 09, 2018 8:20 am

Scotthatch wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:17 pm
GARY C wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 1:00 pm
One thing being overlooked on SBC wave tuning is that most modern as cast parts have been designed with that factored in within the constraints of fitment, to fine tune that you would have to go to custom fabricated intake which is not legal in many racing bodies because of the possibility of dominating the class and there not cheap!
How could it be built in with different intakes and heads and camshaft closing points ??? That doesn't even make sense to me and I have never seen a listing that said our parts are tuned to the 4th harmonic and you need to shut the valve at 45 degrees to make use of it.....
If it isn't listed in the catalog, it doesn't matter right?!? Lol

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Re: Flow bench results

Post by Scotthatch » Sat Jun 09, 2018 8:30 am

Warp Speed wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 8:20 am
Scotthatch wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:17 pm
GARY C wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 1:00 pm
One thing being overlooked on SBC wave tuning is that most modern as cast parts have been designed with that factored in within the constraints of fitment, to fine tune that you would have to go to custom fabricated intake which is not legal in many racing bodies because of the possibility of dominating the class and there not cheap!
How could it be built in with different intakes and heads and camshaft closing points ??? That doesn't even make sense to me and I have never seen a listing that said our parts are tuned to the 4th harmonic and you need to shut the valve at 45 degrees to make use of it.....
If it isn't listed in the catalog, it doesn't matter right?!? Lol

According to Gary it's built in and every engine uses it so how do you make more power if it's the same wave ???

Let me rephrase that
Two engines same cid same intake same camshaft but one makes more power then the other ... wave is the same right? So what is making the extra HP?

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Re: Flow bench results

Post by Warp Speed » Sat Jun 09, 2018 8:41 am

Scotthatch wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 8:30 am
Warp Speed wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 8:20 am
Scotthatch wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:17 pm


How could it be built in with different intakes and heads and camshaft closing points ??? That doesn't even make sense to me and I have never seen a listing that said our parts are tuned to the 4th harmonic and you need to shut the valve at 45 degrees to make use of it.....
If it isn't listed in the catalog, it doesn't matter right?!? Lol

According to Gary it's built in and every engine uses it so how do you make more power if it's the same wave ???

Let me rephrase that
Two engines same cid same intake same camshaft but one makes more power then the other ... wave is the same right? So what is making the extra HP?
Every engine DOES use it!
How effective depends on many factors.

In your question, there are only about 100 factors it could be. You are purely stuck on flow, and that will only take you so far. Apparently, that is far enough for you. To many others it is not!

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Re: Flow bench results

Post by GARY C » Sat Jun 09, 2018 1:17 pm

Scotthatch wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 8:30 am
Warp Speed wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 8:20 am
Scotthatch wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:17 pm


How could it be built in with different intakes and heads and camshaft closing points ??? That doesn't even make sense to me and I have never seen a listing that said our parts are tuned to the 4th harmonic and you need to shut the valve at 45 degrees to make use of it.....
If it isn't listed in the catalog, it doesn't matter right?!? Lol

According to Gary it's built in and every engine uses it so how do you make more power if it's the same wave ???

Let me rephrase that
Two engines same cid same intake same camshaft but one makes more power then the other ... wave is the same right? So what is making the extra HP?
Taper or lack of taper for one, it's not always about making more power but where you make the best power in the rpm range. More taper will effect the time and speed of the wave (for lack of better terms) and move the power band higher, this usually increases power providing everything is done correctly. Why do you think changing runner lengths changes rpm range if it's not due to the change of the pressure wave?
If the 2 engines were done identical chances are the power would be the same as well within a few numbers but take one of them and start adding or subtracting runner length and they most likely will not and it will change where the peak power numbers happen in the rpm range.
Please Note!
THE ABOVE POST IN NO WAY REFLECTS THE VIEWS OF SPEED TALK OR IT'S MEMBER AND SHOULD BE VIEWED AS ENTERTAINMENT ONLY...Thanks, The Management!

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Re: Flow bench results

Post by swampbuggy » Sun Jun 10, 2018 7:08 am

Gary, Matt who is MBE cylinder heads said that they got away from taper in the port and there's more power there with less taper this is on high horsepower stuff. Mark H.

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Re: Flow bench results

Post by DrillDawg » Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:13 am

So, in a "tapered" port is the boundary layer thicker in the large part of the taper or the narrow part where the velocity is higher?
BORN RIGHT THE FIRST TIME

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Re: Flow bench results

Post by midnightbluS10 » Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:49 am

What is this "flowZ" that I keep seeing? I've seen it used as a verb, as in this thread a few posts back, and as the subject, being used to define a thing. How exactly is that? Why not just write "...port flows..." instead of "...the port flowZ 415 cfm..."?

What's the point in using it? Anybody?

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Re: Flow bench results

Post by RevTheory » Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:13 am

It's just a long-running funny that Randy came up with a year or two ago. It stuck :lol:

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Re: Flow bench results

Post by randy331 » Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:49 am

Flowz produce more power than flows, and flowZZ are even better than flowz. :D

Randy

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Re: Flow bench results

Post by swampbuggy » Sun Jun 10, 2018 11:13 am

:lol: Randy the clown. Mark H.

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Re: Flow bench results

Post by statsystems » Sun Jun 10, 2018 1:14 pm

randy331 wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:49 am
Flowz produce more power than flows, and flowZZ are even better than flowz. :D

Randy

I can never do better than plain old flowz. I have learned to live with my mediocrity.

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Re: Flow bench results

Post by John Wallace » Sun Jun 10, 2018 1:46 pm

So a head that flowzz 415 cfm is a lot better than a head that flowz 415 cfm?
(and a lot better than one that flows 415 cfm)

:?:
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