groberts101 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:48 pm
statsystems wrote: ↑Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:16 pmNo offense groberts, but you act like a welfare engine builder. What I have said from the start has been proven correct several times over. You want a fool proof, guaranteed, works every time recipie for whatever you are building to keep your monetary exposure to the minimum.
This place is for an exchange of IDEAS. Not a place where everyone gives shit away for free.
You have been given ample information yet you continue to argue and find fault with everyone but yourself.
Personally, you aren't ready to move up to the 1990's (most likely earlier because I didn't develop the stuff but I damn sure learned it in the 1990's) as far as valve jobs are concerned.
Just do what you do and be happy.
That's just it, stat. You misunderstand me asking questions towards greater detail as handholding and giving away your first born or leaking trade secrets or something. I will admit the "welfare engine builder" was pretty funny though.. my brain loves to come up with witty smart ass remarks like that too. After consideration for the degrading aspect of such remarks, it usually ends up with just me patting myself on the back though.
Your word IDEA's would be better translated into the word CONCEPT's.. because that 's all you guys are really giving out. Not highly specific info that can be added to the internal notes and chalkboards to cross reference over towards other designs. You want to see a guy that freely share's his wisdom when he has a moment to breath? Look at Larry Meaux's posts. That guy may not disagree with some peoples assessments or replies(pro's or plainfolk).. but he has CLASS and responds in like manner. Something to be learned there.
And here's the thing I've said over and over till I'm blue in the face saying it. All I want are specific's to what, where, when, and WHY you did something. I full well understand the variables involved and would never EVER assume that the stuff carries across all applications and architectures. In fact, if you say it does?.. I put a little yellow asterisk next to your inputted data that related to "data smells of shit.. add more salt to keep the stink down". It's ALL just data that get's accumulated for greater overview towards seeing a bigger picture is all. Don't know how else to explain it other than I don't really even care who the data originates from(mainly because there are some EXTREMELY sharp unknown individuals out there that should not be ignored).. it's all just used as building blocks to determine how I.. ME.. want to utilize it and all falls into my interpretation and fitment into any particular application.
The other thing I see quite often over a lifetime of experience, is some people being overly guarded with information because they never truly want others to know what they don't know. Pride's a funny thing and too much causes a tripping hazard for some guys.
You want something I can't tell you in words. I can't describe what I see when I look at a port, chamber and valve. In my head it makes sense, but to put it in words is nearly impossible for me.
Show me a head and most of the time I can tell you what I'd do with it. To type out why would be impossible.
Another engine builder where I used to live was working with a local Comp eliminator guy. We shared flow information and helped each other when we ran into issues. We even flowed each other's port work and would compare notes.
I stopped by his shop on the way home one night and I was looking at a set of heads off the Comp engine he was sending off to get updated. He didn't feel comfortable with that particular set of heads. He was sending them to a well know guy who had proven results.
Anyway...I just off the top of my head I said "I'd put the 55* seat I have on that and ditch the nail head valves and piss on the flow numbers". He just laughed it off.
A couple of months later the heads showed up and he had them apart sitting on the floor. I didn't know they were even back yet. I just needed to drop off some cranks I magged for him and there they were.
Bigger than shit, from 20 feet away I could SEE it had the exact same valve job I suggested. He came walking up and I told him "that's the same exact valve job I use and that's a 55* seat". He was stunned. The next day I gave him the seat cutters I had and he matched them up. It was the same, as I told him.
He spent many hours on the flow bench and finally gave up. The heads flowed less everywhere. But the heads made more power on the dyno and went faster in the car.
I tell this long story to make the point that I can't describe what I see. I suspect many can't so they try to find math to help explain it. I suspect my limited education keeps me from describing what you want.
My best advice to you is to stop overthinking it. Use your imagination and picture what the flow would look like if you stuck a hose in the port and you were watching water move through the port.
For me, it's a visual thing. When you can see the shape in your mind, you'll know when to use a steeper seat. I just cant put that into words but I will say it's about the shape of things as the valve moves through the lift curve and how the valve, seat angles and port and the shape they make as the valve moves through the lift curve that is important to me and almost impossible for me to describe.
It's about shape, shape, shape. And I'm sure there is something in the way the pressure in the port changes but I'm definitely not smart enough to explain that.
](./images/smilies/eusa_wall.gif "Brick wall")
