CamKing

General engine tech -- Drag Racing to Circle Track

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cuisinartvette
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Re: CamKing

Post by cuisinartvette » Sun May 20, 2018 4:52 pm

and they said it sounded down on power. I said, does it not accelerate quickly, and they said, no that's not a problem. I told them to run it, and get back to me. They were still not happy, and wanted the cam changed, without ever running.
Id lose patience real quick with that. Old machinist, if he started hearing that crap would literally throw all their outside and tell you to gtfo. lol
They should be happy it sounds so mild yet runs so hard thats half the fun.

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Re: CamKing

Post by Walter R. Malik » Sun May 20, 2018 6:02 pm

tjs44 wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 4:08 pm
This is a great post because I read about so many guys that want a big HP 400 engine in their street car and get the engine built with a cam they bought from a call to a cams tech dept and HATE how it drives.Tom
I can't even begin to tell anyone, how many camshafts with smallish lobe specs I have had to have ground for unknowledgeable street/strip customers who wanted/needed to have a rolling idle sound; getting those camshafts on really tight separation for more overlap just because that customer wanted that sound, thinking it was a sign of more power.

All you can do is to tell them "up front" that it will get their idle sound but, at the cost of being temperamental and costing some power. It is absolutely astonishing how many of them will still continue to go that way.
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Re: CamKing

Post by woody b » Sun May 20, 2018 6:44 pm

I built alcohol carbs for quite a few people who thought it would be slower than their gas set up due to idle sound.
I used to be a people person, but people ruined it.

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Re: CamKing

Post by swampbuggy » Sun May 20, 2018 6:55 pm

I've never heard that before, i think i am understanding what you are meaning :?: Mark H.

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Re: CamKing

Post by cjperformance » Sun May 20, 2018 10:19 pm

Many years back at the drags doing idle mixtures on a 429BBF, as it smoothed out the idle a little with the mixture nice i had a bystander tell me "watch it 60' slower next run, you've adjusted *some of the cam* out of it" !! #-o
Another total classic, i had an VE R8 hsv in , ls engine twin turbo all legal emissions the lot, strong internals but smooth stock like idle making 534rwkw, so a lot of fun to drive! ,, at the same time i did some work on a cammed up 6.0L VE SS, absolute pig to drive, bucks , snotty, slipping the clutch to get away at the lights, 3rd gear at 60kph as 4th on light coast it is just crap, owner told me it made 330 something rwkw but i doubt it, owner of the bad ass sounding SS heard me start amd move the turbo R8 and says " nice car but pity about the stock engine, he needs a real cam , if i see that at the lights I'll give him a real shock with my SS" !! I just politely said yes yours certainly sounds pretty grunty ! :roll:
Cam sound and idle note is just so important as pose value to some drivers, if its not cammy enough their mates rib them, its a status symbol which can make it really hard sometimes to talk someone around to fitting a smoother sounding combo even when you know its going to outperform their mismatched overcammed "pub mate combo".
Craig.

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Re: CamKing

Post by GARY C » Sun May 20, 2018 11:05 pm

Casper393W wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 3:10 pm
I have ran into that very issue before... The year we won the PTRA Performance Street Championship... The rules of the class allowed engines under 335ci to run a single .065 nitrous jet/ or you could run N/A Small block up to 420 CI. we were the smallest engine in the class at only 284" at the time... One of our top competitors had a 331 SBF with worked over AFR 225 heads.. 12.5 to 1 compression with a big single plane intake... The engine was a top notch piece...built by S.V. that is his initials. That engine sounded like a pro-mod... So when we get to the track with our little 2V mod motor.... It sounded very tame beside this Fox body.. To be honest you couldn't hear it for that 331....

This was the first race of the year and it was a exhibition race.... The owner/driver of the Car was talking major junk about my little Mod Motor... I told him I have $200 in my pocket that I will gap you! I didn't know what what happen but I was confident in my Engine Build..(Keep in mind we only race 1/8 mile). We line them up.... My driver Micah was nervous because he didn't think he had a chance...
The lights came down... We ran a 6.40 @ 107 to his 6.52 @ 105.

It goes to show never judge an engine by it's Idle/sound... Because you don't rattle all of the windows out of the house doesn't mean it won't haul the mail!

Andy
Was the 331 the green mustang that dominated the class or Thads Wagon?

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Re: CamKing

Post by barnym17 » Mon May 21, 2018 6:03 am

I personally don't care how it sounds I care how it runs.

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Re: CamKing

Post by steve cowan » Mon May 21, 2018 6:18 am

cjperformance wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 10:19 pm
Many years back at the drags doing idle mixtures on a 429BBF, as it smoothed out the idle a little with the mixture nice i had a bystander tell me "watch it 60' slower next run, you've adjusted *some of the cam* out of it" !! #-o
Another total classic, i had an VE R8 hsv in , ls engine twin turbo all legal emissions the lot, strong internals but smooth stock like idle making 534rwkw, so a lot of fun to drive! ,, at the same time i did some work on a cammed up 6.0L VE SS, absolute pig to drive, bucks , snotty, slipping the clutch to get away at the lights, 3rd gear at 60kph as 4th on light coast it is just crap, owner told me it made 330 something rwkw but i doubt it, owner of the bad ass sounding SS heard me start amd move the turbo R8 and says " nice car but pity about the stock engine, he needs a real cam , if i see that at the lights I'll give him a real shock with my SS" !! I just politely said yes yours certainly sounds pretty grunty ! :roll:
Cam sound and idle note is just so important as pose value to some drivers, if its not cammy enough their mates rib them, its a status symbol which can make it really hard sometimes to talk someone around to fitting a smoother sounding combo even when you know its going to outperform their mismatched overcammed "pub mate combo".
Craig,
i see this nearly every weekend at the track,stock looking,sounding late model cars turning very impressive numbers,my brother in law has a really nice VE GTS with a harrop supercharger and all the fruit,stock converter and rear gear,as you know my HQ ute with 5600 converter and 4.1s on the hwy is fun!!!!!!
we both run 11.10s mine at 122mph his at 127mph.
he puts the family in the car and turns the aircon on for the drive home,
my girl tells me now she drive herself to the track and home again #-o
steve c

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Re: CamKing

Post by Casper393W » Mon May 21, 2018 4:01 pm

GARY C wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 11:05 pm
Casper393W wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 3:10 pm
I have ran into that very issue before... The year we won the PTRA Performance Street Championship... The rules of the class allowed engines under 335ci to run a single .065 nitrous jet/ or you could run N/A Small block up to 420 CI. we were the smallest engine in the class at only 284" at the time... One of our top competitors had a 331 SBF with worked over AFR 225 heads.. 12.5 to 1 compression with a big single plane intake... The engine was a top notch piece...built by S.V. that is his initials. That engine sounded like a pro-mod... So when we get to the track with our little 2V mod motor.... It sounded very tame beside this Fox body.. To be honest you couldn't hear it for that 331....

This was the first race of the year and it was a exhibition race.... The owner/driver of the Car was talking major junk about my little Mod Motor... I told him I have $200 in my pocket that I will gap you! I didn't know what what happen but I was confident in my Engine Build..(Keep in mind we only race 1/8 mile). We line them up.... My driver Micah was nervous because he didn't think he had a chance...
The lights came down... We ran a 6.40 @ 107 to his 6.52 @ 105.

It goes to show never judge an engine by it's Idle/sound... Because you don't rattle all of the windows out of the house doesn't mean it won't haul the mail!

Andy
Was the 331 the green mustang that dominated the class or Thads Wagon?

The green Fox was a all motor combo 420ci with highly worked over "N" heads

It was a Red Fox body owned / driven by Brent Moody
. We are really good friends... To this day his car to me has the best sounding 331 that I have ever heard!

Thad's wagon was a serious piece as well! I loved watching that thing drag the Reece hitch on it's wheelstands... The track got on him because it was grinding in the track! Lol

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Re: CamKing

Post by GARY C » Mon May 21, 2018 5:42 pm

Casper393W wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 4:01 pm
GARY C wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 11:05 pm
Casper393W wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 3:10 pm
I have ran into that very issue before... The year we won the PTRA Performance Street Championship... The rules of the class allowed engines under 335ci to run a single .065 nitrous jet/ or you could run N/A Small block up to 420 CI. we were the smallest engine in the class at only 284" at the time... One of our top competitors had a 331 SBF with worked over AFR 225 heads.. 12.5 to 1 compression with a big single plane intake... The engine was a top notch piece...built by S.V. that is his initials. That engine sounded like a pro-mod... So when we get to the track with our little 2V mod motor.... It sounded very tame beside this Fox body.. To be honest you couldn't hear it for that 331....

This was the first race of the year and it was a exhibition race.... The owner/driver of the Car was talking major junk about my little Mod Motor... I told him I have $200 in my pocket that I will gap you! I didn't know what what happen but I was confident in my Engine Build..(Keep in mind we only race 1/8 mile). We line them up.... My driver Micah was nervous because he didn't think he had a chance...
The lights came down... We ran a 6.40 @ 107 to his 6.52 @ 105.

It goes to show never judge an engine by it's Idle/sound... Because you don't rattle all of the windows out of the house doesn't mean it won't haul the mail!

Andy
Was the 331 the green mustang that dominated the class or Thads Wagon?

The green Fox was a all motor combo 420ci with highly worked over "N" heads

It was a Red Fox body owned / driven by Brent Moody
. We are really good friends... To this day his car to me has the best sounding 331 that I have ever heard!

Thad's wagon was a serious piece as well! I loved watching that thing drag the Reece hitch on it's wheelstands... The track got on him because it was grinding in the track! Lol
I think that is the same class Vizard and David McCormick ran.

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Re: CamKing

Post by MikeB » Tue May 22, 2018 12:01 am

CamKing wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 1:45 pm
They are now happy as hell, and they almost never ran it, just because it idled too smoothly for their liking.
Funny that so many folks judge a cam's performance by the idle. Heck, some of them probably wouldn't be happy with a 500-650 HP LS engine because it idled smoothly.

Mike, you ground a Chevy 327 hyd flat tappet cam for me several years ago with 204/208 duration and .44x/.45x lift. I was almost laughed off some forums when I mentioned the specs! Have to say that cam was just what my street car's engine and tall gearing were looking for. Lots of low-mid RPM grunt where the engine spent 98% of its time, but it pulled like a freight train to 5500.

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Re: CamKing

Post by MadBill » Tue May 22, 2018 12:39 am

Judging by some of the Rice Rockets in my town, someone's making a killing flashing ECUs to fart, pop, spit flames and generally run like crap at high RPM. #-o
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Re: CamKing

Post by hysteric » Tue May 22, 2018 1:06 am

Anyone got a solid or hydro non roller cam that will run run mid 11's @ 3200 lbs and have a nice and smooth idle in a 360 mopar?

No I'm not joking.... [-X

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Re: CamKing

Post by Rick Finsta » Tue May 22, 2018 6:03 am

MadBill wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 12:39 am
Judging by some of the Rice Rockets in my town, someone's making a killing flashing ECUs to fart, pop, spit flames and generally run like crap at high RPM. #-o
Not to get off topic but I've seen some of those guys complain about not being able to get the anti lag on an ECU to spit flames out the exhaust. On normally aspirated cars...

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Re: CamKing

Post by CamKing » Tue May 22, 2018 10:00 am

hysteric wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 1:06 am
Anyone got a solid or hydro non roller cam that will run run mid 11's @ 3200 lbs and have a nice and smooth idle in a 360 mopar?

No I'm not joking.... [-X
With the 3.58" stroke, that should be no problem.
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