Cam Data from Well-Developed Engines

[GARY C]

In the mid 90's I think it was John Lingenfelter made a name for himself by increasing the power of the new Corvette by around 100 horsepower by only reworking what came from the factory and was completely undetectable unless you disassembled the engine, he did it to show how much the factory engineers were leaving on the table.
EDIT! Some of this may be by design in conjunction with the aftermarket based on things done with later GM products where they started offing factory installed aftermarket upgrades.
EDIT,EDIT... Shouldn't these elaborate state of the art programs be able to overcome all of that and leave nothing on the table? After all that seem to be Jon's claim is that through these programs you can solve anything?

In the early to mid 1990's there wasn't even a parametric CAD system capable of modeling an engine.
I was working on development of the CAD system they eventually used at GM; Unigraphics so I know all the details about what they could do and when they could do it.

That still doesn't change the fact that a nobody with nothing could better the product produced by engineers with a million dollar budget, at some point you have to quit sitting in your chair tuning mediocre stuff and get your hands dirty to see what your missing.

We could discuss his later work developing the SBC Prostock engine and his shelves full of intakes, cams, headers and actual dyno testing but that has nothing to do with computers.

[SchmidtMotorWorks]

In the mid 90's I think it was John Lingenfelter made a name for himself by increasing the power of the new Corvette by around 100 horsepower by only reworking what came from the factory and was completely undetectable unless you disassembled the engine, he did it to show how much the factory engineers were leaving on the table.
EDIT! Some of this may be by design in conjunction with the aftermarket based on things done with later GM products where they started offing factory installed aftermarket upgrades.
EDIT,EDIT... Shouldn't these elaborate state of the art programs be able to overcome all of that and leave nothing on the table? After all that seem to be Jon's claim is that through these programs you can solve anything?

In the early to mid 1990's there wasn't even a parametric CAD system capable of modeling an engine.
I was working on development of the CAD system they eventually used at GM; Unigraphics so I know all the details about what they could do and when they could do it.

That still doesn't change the fact that a nobody with nothing could better the product produced by engineers with a million dollar budget, at some point you have to quit sitting in your chair tuning mediocre stuff and get your hands dirty to see what your missing.

We could discuss his later work developing the SBC Prostock engine and his shelves full of intakes, cams, headers and actual dyno testing but that has nothing to do with computers.

You are talking about a different criteria. The comparison is meaningless.

[GARY C]

In the early to mid 1990's there wasn't even a parametric CAD system capable of modeling an engine.
I was working on development of the CAD system they eventually used at GM; Unigraphics so I know all the details about what they could do and when they could do it.

That still doesn't change the fact that a nobody with nothing could better the product produced by engineers with a million dollar budget, at some point you have to quit sitting in your chair tuning mediocre stuff and get your hands dirty to see what your missing.

We could discuss his later work developing the SBC Prostock engine and his shelves full of intakes, cams, headers and actual dyno testing but that has nothing to do with computers.

You are talking about a different criteria. The comparison is meaningless.

Now your getting it!

[Warp Speed]

Wow, this is hilarious!

[RevTheory]

I do what you are talking about for a living, you are very confused about what happens in development.
Generally it is possible to design to fill a new niche with different criteria, but if you try to keep the same criteria there is very little to nothing on the table in a 2018 car.

Yep! I'm wrong and you're right! Facts don't matter, you're right. All you have to do is deflect the topic and look down your nose and post little more than condescending "answers" and then hide behind the false pretense of an NDA

You carry on about peer review, why will you never put your name on an actual number?

[groberts101]

this place seriously needs a moderator to clean all this bullshit bickering up.

[user-30257]

this place seriously needs a moderator to clean all this bullshit bickering up.

Or get rid of the bullshit people. Including but not limited to me.

[SchmidtMotorWorks]

I do what you are talking about for a living, you are very confused about what happens in development.
Generally it is possible to design to fill a new niche with different criteria, but if you try to keep the same criteria there is very little to nothing on the table in a 2018 car.

Yep! I'm wrong and you're right! Facts don't matter, you're right. All you have to do is deflect the topic and look down your nose and post little more than condescending "answers" and then hide behind the false pretense of an NDA

You carry on about peer review, why will you never put your name on an actual number?

Because a number will not give you any knowledge.
I am trying to help you understand the concepts that bring you to the numbers so that you can understand their significance.

Just giving you a number is like saying "apples are better than oranges".

[pastry_chef]

Don already suggested adding "Friends" or "Foes", some should do exactly that.
I think if you add a foe it blocks you from seeing each others posts..

[Warp Speed]

I do what you are talking about for a living, you are very confused about what happens in development.
Generally it is possible to design to fill a new niche with different criteria, but if you try to keep the same criteria there is very little to nothing on the table in a 2018 car.

Yep! I'm wrong and you're right! Facts don't matter, you're right. All you have to do is deflect the topic and look down your nose and post little more than condescending "answers" and then hide behind the false pretense of an NDA

You carry on about peer review, why will you never put your name on an actual number?

Your taking it as "looking down your nose", when there is allot more to learn from it if you put the petty stuff behind!
If you just want an easy button for a limited criteria, just move on. If your a real gear head that doesn't know it all, but wants to learn, try looking at it a different way. Your letting your emotions get in the way of learning!

[blykins]

this place seriously needs a moderator to clean all this bullshit bickering up.

Or get rid of the bullshit people. Including but not limited to me.

I'm getting ready to take a leave of absence. Lots of egos here and no valuable discussion.

[speedtalk]

Don already suggested adding "Friends" or "Foes", some should do exactly that.
I think if you add a foe it blocks you from seeing each others posts..

Thanks Mike -- I was just going to post that.

Click on your username in upper right corner > User Control Panel > Friends & Foes > Manage Foes