Ford FE combo

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mag2555
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Re: Ford FE combo

Post by mag2555 » Wed May 16, 2018 6:14 am

With that valve inclination angle that those FE heads have porting the Intakes to flow over 260 cfm@28" is very tricky work in terms of the needed short turn arc and floor width!
If you have a mule head you can sacrifice in terms of getting the port work right then that would be the way to go.

If you do not have a flow bench at your disposal then I would suggest you cuddle up to someone who does because you will need a good amount of time on one if your porting these yourself!

Hitting the Exh numbers you posted is not hard, but I would step up to bigger size Exh valve if you could to max out the low lift flow while getting the high lift numbers your shooting for.
In porting the Exh side from the bowl on out , once you get to the apex of the short turn do not do any grinding , only polish if you care to.

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Re: Ford FE combo

Post by chilly460 » Wed May 16, 2018 7:14 am

Bos's5.0 wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 8:47 pm
FE head flow is fake. Considering the intake manifold has the pushrods and about an inch or so of port length, any numbers without that manifold are fake and useless compared to "normal" heads.
I don't disagree, but every other head is affected by the intake to some degree, the FE just moreso. I'll widen the pushrod pinch to match the port exit, I just did a Performer RPM and had to sleeve a few of the passages.

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Re: Ford FE combo

Post by chilly460 » Wed May 16, 2018 7:19 am

JohnsnsFord2@aol.com wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 9:51 pm
Are you dead set on those heads?
To give some background, I actually have a set of Edelbrocks, C80E CJs, and now a set of Medium Risers. I have BBMs going on a 390 right now. This combo isn't an attempt to make max power, I'd use the BBMs or get the Edelbrocks ported if that was the case.

It's intent is to let me port a set of heads and see how they do on a cheap shortblock. I didn't want to learn on a set of CJ's or the Edelbrocks, so that's why I landed on the C1s. I just picked up a set of C4AE-Gs but my understanding is they're all but identical to C1s. If there's some inherent issue with C1s then I'd have no problem using something else.

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Re: Ford FE combo

Post by chilly460 » Wed May 16, 2018 7:21 am

[/quote]

Chilly460 - what is the intake port height at the gasket face on your heads?
[/quote]

Will check today and report back

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Re: Ford FE combo

Post by mag2555 » Wed May 16, 2018 8:24 am

If your only looking for 450 hp even just 250 cfm @ .550" lift will net you that.

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Re: Ford FE combo

Post by chilly460 » Wed May 16, 2018 8:28 am

mag2555 wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 6:14 am
With that valve inclination angle that those FE heads have porting the Intakes to flow over 260 cfm@28" is very tricky work in terms of the needed short turn arc and floor width!
If you have a mule head you can sacrifice in terms of getting the port work right then that would be the way to go.

If you do not have a flow bench at your disposal then I would suggest you cuddle up to someone who does because you will need a good amount of time on one if your porting these yourself!

Hitting the Exh numbers you posted is not hard, but I would step up to bigger size Exh valve if you could to max out the low lift flow while getting the high lift numbers your shooting for.
In porting the Exh side from the bowl on out , once you get to the apex of the short turn do not do any grinding , only polish if you care to.
There's only one bench I know of in Richmond, he's flowed some heads for me and I'll have him flow the ports after my first iteration, then we'll figure out where it needs help. I found some info on porting these castings and basically plan was to raise the roof a bit, leave the floor alone as it's already too low, and do general blending in the bowl. The short turn will initially be pretty much untouched, there is a "square" corner I'll take down very lightly but basically just leave it alone and see how they flow and revise accordingly. I appreciate your feedback, I'll report back as I get more info.

1.65" exhaust looks to be about as big as I can go in the 4.08" bore, gets cozy with the cylinder.

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Re: Ford FE combo

Post by PackardV8 » Wed May 16, 2018 11:35 am

1.65" exhaust looks to be about as big as I can go in the 4.08" bore, gets cozy with the cylinder.
Any particular reason the top of the FE cylinder couldn't be notched for valve clearance? It's been SOP forever, even from OEMs; Pontiac 350" and Studebaker R3s come to mind.
Jack Vines
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Re: Ford FE combo

Post by chilly460 » Wed May 16, 2018 1:23 pm

cjperformance wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 12:52 am
Walter R. Malik wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 11:19 pm
I am curious about the compression ratio with those heads ... I thought the C1AE heads for an early FE have 64cc combustion chambers; maybe not, I might be thinking about some other casting number..
Last C1AE heads I had in were +/- on 72cc and had been resurfaced as well as a littke taken out of the chamber around the valves. Intake port height at the gasket face was 1.95"

Chilly460 - what is the intake port height at the gasket face on your heads?
2.31”

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Re: Ford FE combo

Post by cgarb » Wed May 16, 2018 7:23 pm

Yes, 427 diameter exhaust valves won't fit in the 390 bore...ask me how I know...lol. They will make their own clearance for a while.

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Re: Ford FE combo

Post by cjperformance » Wed May 16, 2018 7:28 pm

cgarb wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 7:23 pm
Yes, 427 diameter exhaust valves won't fit in the 390 bore...ask me how I know...lol. They will make their own clearance for a while.
Oops ! #-o
Craig.

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Re: Ford FE combo

Post by cjperformance » Wed May 16, 2018 7:31 pm

chilly460 wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 1:23 pm
cjperformance wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 12:52 am
Walter R. Malik wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 11:19 pm
I am curious about the compression ratio with those heads ... I thought the C1AE heads for an early FE have 64cc combustion chambers; maybe not, I might be thinking about some other casting number..
Last C1AE heads I had in were +/- on 72cc and had been resurfaced as well as a littke taken out of the chamber around the valves. Intake port height at the gasket face was 1.95"

Chilly460 - what is the intake port height at the gasket face on your heads?
2.31”
Do your heads have a cast combustion chamber or a fully machined chamber?
Valve cover rail also on stock angle?
Just asking as i really like the FE etc family if engine and over the years have seen so many variances from what 'should be' according to part number.
Any chance of a pic?
Cheers,
Craig.

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Re: Ford FE combo

Post by chilly460 » Wed May 16, 2018 7:54 pm

These are cast chamber, standard VC angle. Just garden variety $50 heads, not one of the many more exotic FE variants. I actually like the obscure FE stuff as well which is why I picked up the Medium Risers

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Re: Ford FE combo

Post by cjperformance » Wed May 16, 2018 8:09 pm

chilly460 wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 7:54 pm
These are cast chamber, standard VC angle. Just garden variety $50 heads, not one of the many more exotic FE variants. I actually like the obscure FE stuff as well which is why I picked up the Medium Risers
Nice. Be good to see how this turns out.
Craig.

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Re: Ford FE combo

Post by cgarb » Wed May 16, 2018 9:47 pm

cjperformance wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 7:28 pm
cgarb wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 7:23 pm
Yes, 427 diameter exhaust valves won't fit in the 390 bore...ask me how I know...lol. They will make their own clearance for a while.
Oops ! #-o
Yeah, you live and you learn. If I would have thought to check that, I would have scalloped them just like a Cleveland. It actually ran quite well until the block cracked, unrelated to the exhaust valve issue, but upon teardown I found the exhaust guides worn and the best cam we had in it was wiped...not sure if it was the milked coolant oil or valve contact or both. 390 in a 69 Torino, 3200lbs, TRW pop ups, 428 CJ heads, Crower solid lift cam, Vic Jr intake on methanol ran 10.70 at 124. Very basic build, but performed well in my opinion.

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Re: Ford FE combo

Post by plovett » Fri May 18, 2018 10:34 am

I'd be inclined to use the 2.09" intake valves. Just a safer bet. If you can get help optimizing the heads for the 2.15" valves and as has been suggested, notch the cylinder bores, then go 2.15".

JMO,

paulie

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