427 SBC test debunks 128 debunckers

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GARY C
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Re: 427 SBC test debunks 128 debunckers

Post by GARY C » Thu May 10, 2018 11:20 pm

B Original wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 11:13 pm
[*]Is it true that David dyno'd over 12,000 cams over a several year period When he work for on the big cam companies maybe Harold at Ultradyne? I might be wrong about the company but I understand he took the data from all these Dyno sessions and develop trends that he used to come up with some of the formulas he used to come up with his 128 rule of thumb and the variations for the different kinds of engines? Maybe David or somebody that's known him a lot longer than I have will step in here and correct me or I might be wrong. Between his engineering background and his years building and researching different kinds of racing engines I think gives him a pretty strong background to speak about cam applications.
It was Harvy Crane that hired him to do that, Denny from Motor Machine out of Tucson was part of it and told me the story a cpl of years before I got to know DV, they modified an intake and an off the engine water pump system to speed up changes. in the testing included CL changes and some rocker testing and they did 5 pulls per test, threw out the highest and lowest and averaged the three in the middle. This compiled a mountain of dyno sheets that later got compiled into creating Cam Master that later was upgraded to Cos-Cams.

EDIT, he was however friends with Harold as well as most cam designers in the day and did testing with many.
Last edited by GARY C on Thu May 10, 2018 11:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 427 SBC test debunks 128 debunckers

Post by GARY C » Thu May 10, 2018 11:27 pm

fastblackracing wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 11:15 pm
What a shame it is when we have a chance to learn something and likely something good but the haters are out in full on mob mentality to bash a man who has likely done more than all of them put together.

Gary C I echo your comment about someone that is supposed to be the smartest one here....99% of what
I have seen that poster share is 1 or 2 line smart, pointed comments that have Zero knowledge enhancing
content.

Their is 1 other hi profile poster here that I have no doubt is correct in his thought process that the 128 cam rule is insanely basic and can be improved on but I ask what does he have to offer that will help me and many others to do a better job building my next engine?

What good is it guys if you have all of this knowledge and experience but you cannot drop it down say
50 IQ points for a guy like me to benefit from it? In the end you will take it with you because of failure
to pass it on in a meaningful way.....not much good to take it to your grave unless you really do not want to
share and help fellow enthusiasts out...which I suspect is the case with 1, the other struggles with getting things to a more simplified nature.

What David Vizard has been able to do is put the leg work in, build the engines, gather the data and make sense of it in a way that those of us with less than 130 IQ can understand it and learn from it. He has been able to share a lot of information with a lot of gearheads.

People are so fast to bash the 128 deal but when used as intended it works.....by now we should all know that all of the cam events can be manipulated to change an engines character.....LSA is only going to vary so much....104-120 will cover 99%, break it down further to SBC 104-114, start breaking it down further with bores/strokes/head flow/valve size and real quick you can see that the LSA will fall into a small window.

When picking cam events sure you can add 6 degrees and widen the LSA 1 to reduce OL or whatever so that you can say you picked the events and let the lsa fall where it may but on a few different types of engine
David has done the work and collected and analyzed the data to a point where using the 128 rule you can likely get 95% of all their is to get given your limited budget......

I think it is brilliant what Vizard has come up with for those few limited engine families and If I ever get the chance I will put my hand in his and shake it while I tell him job well done......

I have many of his publications and have learned a great deal from them,and will continue to look forward to his future publications........ if the nay sayers here have info or links to info that I could learn from then I would ask you share that with me so I can further educate myself.

The last time I spoke up against a member here I received a time out, I hope that is not the case again.

Now please can we get back to the subject that the OP posted about which is a BAMF 427 inch power house?
Thanks again DV.....The majority of us are interested in what you have to share.
There is an old saying and I am not sure who it was, maybe others here will.
I am paraphrasing and probably butchering... A smart man can teach a subject at a level that anyone can learn it.

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Re: 427 SBC test debunks 128 debunckers

Post by B Original » Thu May 10, 2018 11:32 pm

GARY C wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 11:20 pm
B Original wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 11:13 pm
[*]Is it true that David dyno'd over 12,000 cams over a several year period When he work for on the big cam companies maybe Harold at Ultradyne? I might be wrong about the company but I understand he took the data from all these Dyno sessions and develop trends that he used to come up with some of the formulas he used to come up with his 128 rule of thumb and the variations for the different kinds of engines? Maybe David or somebody that's known him a lot longer than I have will step in here and correct me or I might be wrong. Between his engineering background and his years building and researching different kinds of racing engines I think gives him a pretty strong background to speak about cam applications.
It was Harvy Crane that hired him to do that, Denny from Motor Machine out of Tucson was part of it and told me the story a cpl of years before I got to know DV, they modified an intake and an off the engine water pump system to speed up changes. in the testing included CL changes and some rocker testing and they did 5 pulls per test, threw out the highest and lowest and averaged the three in the middle. This compiled a mountain of dyno sheets that later got compiled into creating Cam Master that later was upgraded to Cos-Cams.
wonder if Jon aka SchmidtMotorWorks and some of the other haters on here has a fraction of this much testing under his belt for the proof of concept for their alternate theories and programs

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Re: 427 SBC test debunks 128 debunckers

Post by JodyB » Thu May 10, 2018 11:34 pm

Thankyou fellas!!! I would like to hear more of what Mr Vizard has to say!!!!! :)

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Re: 427 SBC test debunks 128 debunckers

Post by JodyB » Thu May 10, 2018 11:39 pm

Don't care what the jackasses have to say. Let them spew their opinions and muck up some other thread. I would like to hear Vizard's opinions, results, and theories based on his testing.

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Re: 427 SBC test debunks 128 debunckers

Post by plovett » Thu May 10, 2018 11:43 pm

David has posted essentially zero information about this 427 SBC and look how much ink and drama he has created. This is what he does......

JMO,

paulie

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Re: 427 SBC test debunks 128 debunckers

Post by fastblackracing » Thu May 10, 2018 11:44 pm

There is an old saying and I am not sure who it was, maybe others here will.
I am paraphrasing and probably butchering... A smart man can teach a subject at a level that anyone can learn it.
[/quote]

That is exactly my point.....and this is how I try to share my knowledge with others that I am able teach..
put it at a level that is not overwhelming and is easily related to.

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Re: 427 SBC test debunks 128 debunckers

Post by fastblackracing » Thu May 10, 2018 11:46 pm

plovett wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 11:43 pm
David has posted essentially zero information about this 427 SBC and look how much ink and drama he has created. This is what he does......

JMO,

paulie
He will be back to fill in the details.....he already stated that once the haters cool of a bit he will
post up.

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Re: 427 SBC test debunks 128 debunckers

Post by GARY C » Thu May 10, 2018 11:50 pm

B Original wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 11:32 pm
GARY C wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 11:20 pm
B Original wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 11:13 pm
[*]Is it true that David dyno'd over 12,000 cams over a several year period When he work for on the big cam companies maybe Harold at Ultradyne? I might be wrong about the company but I understand he took the data from all these Dyno sessions and develop trends that he used to come up with some of the formulas he used to come up with his 128 rule of thumb and the variations for the different kinds of engines? Maybe David or somebody that's known him a lot longer than I have will step in here and correct me or I might be wrong. Between his engineering background and his years building and researching different kinds of racing engines I think gives him a pretty strong background to speak about cam applications.
It was Harvy Crane that hired him to do that, Denny from Motor Machine out of Tucson was part of it and told me the story a cpl of years before I got to know DV, they modified an intake and an off the engine water pump system to speed up changes. in the testing included CL changes and some rocker testing and they did 5 pulls per test, threw out the highest and lowest and averaged the three in the middle. This compiled a mountain of dyno sheets that later got compiled into creating Cam Master that later was upgraded to Cos-Cams.
wonder if Jon aka SchmidtMotorWorks and some of the other haters on here has a fraction of this much testing under his belt for the proof of concept for their alternate theories and programs
Jon's work has an important place it's just totally different from what DV does and I think people at a certain level have a big issue with things being simplified. I wish Jon and others would take the time to talk to DV one on one and understand that he has the ability to function on their level and that is actually where he started with his degree but thankfully for people like me he chose a path to make information available to the masses and not just the exclusive.

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Re: 427 SBC test debunks 128 debunckers

Post by GARY C » Thu May 10, 2018 11:53 pm

fastblackracing wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 11:44 pm
There is an old saying and I am not sure who it was, maybe others here will.
I am paraphrasing and probably butchering... A smart man can teach a subject at a level that anyone can learn it.

That is exactly my point.....and this is how I try to share my knowledge with others that I am able teach..
put it at a level that is not overwhelming and is easily related to.
[/quote]

Yes, I find everyone can learn anything if you can find a way to equate it to something that holds their interest. I had no interest what soever in math until it was needed for my passion of engines.

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Re: 427 SBC test debunks 128 debunckers

Post by plovett » Fri May 11, 2018 12:09 am

fastblackracing wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 11:46 pm
plovett wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 11:43 pm
David has posted essentially zero information about this 427 SBC and look how much ink and drama he has created. This is what he does......

JMO,

paulie
He will be back to fill in the details.....he already stated that once the haters cool of a bit he will
post up.
David makes Speedtalk into a circus. David does this. Consistently. Blaming the people who point it out is a diversion.

JMO,

paulie

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Re: 427 SBC test debunks 128 debunckers

Post by statsystems » Fri May 11, 2018 12:18 am

plovett wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 12:09 am
fastblackracing wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 11:46 pm
plovett wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 11:43 pm
David has posted essentially zero information about this 427 SBC and look how much ink and drama he has created. This is what he does......

JMO,

paulie
He will be back to fill in the details.....he already stated that once the haters cool of a bit he will
post up.
David makes Speedtalk into a circus. David does this. Consistently. Blaming the people who point it out is a diversion.

JMO,

paulie

You aren't helping. If you don't like the guy, don't open the thread.

And I agree...warp has a bunch of one liners but I've yet to see him say anything worthwhile technically speaking. You'd think he was working on top secret shit.

plovett
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Re: 427 SBC test debunks 128 debunckers

Post by plovett » Fri May 11, 2018 12:24 am

statsystems wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 12:18 am
plovett wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 12:09 am
fastblackracing wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 11:46 pm


He will be back to fill in the details.....he already stated that once the haters cool of a bit he will
post up.
David makes Speedtalk into a circus. David does this. Consistently. Blaming the people who point it out is a diversion.

JMO,

paulie

You aren't helping. If you don't like the guy, don't open the thread.

And I agree...warp has a bunch of one liners but I've yet to see him say anything worthwhile technically speaking. You'd think he was working on top secret shit.
I like Speedtalk and I will state my opinion and open any thread I want to. I have contributed here though I am just a peon.

JMO,

paulie

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Re: 427 SBC test debunks 128 debunckers

Post by JodyB » Fri May 11, 2018 12:30 am

One thought. The monkeys make speedtalk into a circus. Not Vizard.

GARY C
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Re: 427 SBC test debunks 128 debunckers

Post by GARY C » Fri May 11, 2018 12:33 am

plovett wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 12:09 am
fastblackracing wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 11:46 pm
plovett wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 11:43 pm
David has posted essentially zero information about this 427 SBC and look how much ink and drama he has created. This is what he does......

JMO,

paulie
He will be back to fill in the details.....he already stated that once the haters cool of a bit he will
post up.
David makes Speedtalk into a circus. David does this. Consistently. Blaming the people who point it out is a diversion.

JMO,

paulie
If you go back and read his 128 threads you will see his post are tech related as with most of his threads, it was the clowns that turned it into a circus!
If people don't like the way he frames his threads they don't have to click on them.
Strangely people think he should post the way they do or thats wrong also.
Personally I would like for him to post the way I want him to and I have told him so in phone calls but I am not him and he is not me and he has told me he doesn't like the way I post at times... thankfully we can give and receive constructive criticism and not feel pressured to bow down to another, freedom of speech and friendship goes a long way.

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