Gas rings with MLS gasket for severe use?

[KnightEngines]

Got a 4G63 road race engine that we can't keep the head sealed up, damn thing is making 540hp at the wheels at 3800rpm, turbo is maxxed out at 580hp atw at just over 4000rpm & just flatlines to 7500rpm where it finally drops off.
The car is real quick, one of the quickest hillclimbers in the state & the owner want to keep the power curve & response it has - I have suggested using a larger turbo & bringing it in later & softer, but he'd rather find a solution to keep it sealed up & keep the power delivery as it is.

Currently running AGE 625+ head studs & Permaseal MLSR 'stopper' head gaskets - no joy, still lifts the head.
I suspect the head is bowing between the bolt holes, likely clamping it down harder will not work.

Cometic used to do a Phuzion head gasket - MLS head gasket with larger bore to allow a Garlock gas ring to be fitted without receiver grooves, but they are not available for 4G63.

Does anyone know of any suppliers that could sell me something like that setup?

Or suggestions to keep this damn head sealed up without compromising the power curve?

[KnightEngines]

That'd be a last resort!

[user-30257]

What fuel? I have one making 1000awhp filled stock block and head with cometic gasket. No problems on Q16 guy drives it up to 200miles in a night, shifts at 11,000 racing.

He had problems with head gasket on methanol, e98. But none on gas. Old setyp was coppwr gasket with o-ring. New setup is same head and block minus the o-ring.

[KnightEngines]

E85 fuel - thats part of the problem, spools up too fast, too much cyl pressure too early.
Another 200hp further up in the rpm wouldn't be a problem, it's just coming in too fast.

[cjperformance]

Tony, how about SCE , the ICS Titan gaskets? , copper with an internal o'ring. I've not used them on anything other than big block ford so cant say how they would be on the little mitsi.

[cjperformance]

E85 fuel - thats part of the problem, spools up too fast, too much cyl pressure too early.
Another 200hp further up in the rpm wouldn't be a problem, it's just coming in too fast.

Good point. Grout fill the entire head and block !

[user-30257]

E85 fuel - thats part of the problem, spools up too fast, too much cyl pressure too early.
Another 200hp further up in the rpm wouldn't be a problem, it's just coming in too fast.

I'm pretty certain that is your problem.

[Orr89rocz]

Pull timing out

[KnightEngines]

Had a chat with the owner, could be he'd consider a bigger turbo & a couple less psi early on.
Gotta chat with the tuner & point out that just because it can make 34psi at 3800rpm don't mean it should & he don't neccessarily have to cram the max timing it'll take into it (f*cking laptop jockeys with no mechanical sypathy).
We'll try a nitto stopper gasket, bigger turbo that spools a little slower & relax the tune a little.

[vwchuck]

Dude. You have to be kidding. That is like 750 lb/ft of torque at 3800RPM..from a 4 cylinder??? The BMEP is astronomical. You will undoubtedly keep having issue even if you get it to work for a race or two. You have to move the torque up in RPM to fix it.

[KnightEngines]

Suprisingly it has worked for a few races!
But its on the edge.
I dont tune it, I just machined & assembled the bare engine, the crew take care of the rest. I only found out yesterday what they were doing to the poor thing.
It hasn't been hurt yet, but I don't doubt it will be if the low/midrange is not tamed.
To me its a no brainer to trade some ft/lb through the low/mid for a lot more hp up top with a bigger turbo that comes in softer.
Hard to convice a guy that is currently winning that the combo needs some changes, with any luck I'll convince him before he dnf's.

[Scotthatch]

Just kinda curious on a few things

How bad it the gasket blowing out?

What torque value are you using on the bolts?

Ra on the surface?

[2.2=8]

I've been racing a 2.2L Dodge for 25 years, around 700HP. Head gskt. problems, tried everything. Had Cometic make me a fusion style with three layer MLS, Did NOT work.
Best combination that fixed my problem is a cometic five stack MLS,(without metal gas o ring)with a super smooth deck and head. AND I took 3degrees timing out, with VP Q16 fuel. Went to non undercut 12mm ARP studs made from 2000 material. NO MORE PROBLEMS.
Must mill the deck as smooth as possible, then I milled myself a steel dead flat sanding block; using 1000 grit sandpaper I polished the deck and head surface.
The undercut ARP studs I had been using were stretching like rubber bands at high boost,(too elastic) head was dancing on the deck, Non undercut studs stay put.
Engineer at ARP calculated each 12mm undercut stud applied 8000lbs load to the head @75ft.lbs. torque; and the non undercut 12mm stud applied 12,500 lbs load at 75 ft.lbs. torque. any more and I was afraid I would just crush my aluminum head.
The up-shot of all this is I can now run more boost than ever before, and not lift the head......YAA!

[user-30257]

I've been racing a 2.2L Dodge for 25 years, around 700HP. Head gskt. problems, tried everything. Had Cometic make me a fusion style with three layer MLS, Did NOT work.
Best combination that fixed my problem is a cometic five stack MLS,(without metal gas o ring)with a super smooth deck and head. AND I took 3degrees timing out, with VP Q16 fuel. Went to non undercut 12mm ARP studs made from 2000 material. NO MORE PROBLEMS.

Note you are on q16

[2.2=8]

Yes,Q16. If you want to dance, you got to pay the Fiddler.