Opinions on SBC intakes

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Re: Opinions on SBC intakes

Post by swampbuggy » Mon Apr 30, 2018 11:26 pm

Holy crap-----2.71 H.P. per C.I. AWSOME Larry M. Bore/stroke ?? induction system ?? cam core size/lifter size ?? Thanks and Congrats to whom ever. Mark H. central Fla. :D :wink:

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Re: Opinions on SBC intakes

Post by maxracesoftware » Tue May 01, 2018 1:50 am

swampbuggy wrote:
Mon Apr 30, 2018 11:26 pm
Holy crap-----2.71 H.P. per C.I. AWSOME Larry M. Bore/stroke ?? induction system ?? cam core size/lifter size ?? Thanks and Congrats to whom ever. Mark H. central Fla. :D :wink:
i just recently Dyno tested a 333cid 901.2 HP @ 9700 RPM with Dart 10deg Heads slightly Angle-milled to 9.8 deg
but those too were old 10deg Heads .... switching over to current 9deg Dart combo would make a bunch more HP
... with 9deg on a 371cid it would not have any Dome + better Combustion + much higher Flow CFM
Edit : "Dart 10deg Heads slightly Angle-milled to 9.8 deg" ... i really meant to Post CFE 10 deg Heads instead of saying Dart :oops:
i guess i had Dart on my mind too much when typing ! :oops:

4.190x3.020=333.2cid ... all the credit goes to CFE + Patterson :D
Induction : (2)4's on CFE Sheet Metal Manifold

there's a bunch more HP left to get

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Re: Opinions on SBC intakes

Post by swampbuggy » Tue May 01, 2018 7:56 am

Gives me chill bumps just look'in at it, would have paid$ just to hear her scream !! :D Thanks a million Larry for taking your time to share with all of us !! Mark H. :wink:

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Re: Opinions on SBC intakes

Post by maxracesoftware » Tue May 01, 2018 2:17 pm

swampbuggy wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 7:56 am
Gives me chill bumps just look'in at it, would have paid$ just to hear her scream !! :D Thanks a million Larry for taking your time to share with all of us !! Mark H. :wink:
the 2 best sounding Engines i've had on my Dyno so far were
Craig's A/ND and B/ND SBC 407-409cid turning 9800 RPM with Zoomie Headers
the sound is unreal ... we start the Pull at 8500+ RPM ... by far Craig's engine are the loudest screamers !!!

the next best deep sounding Engine is this 713cid 5.050x4.450 Sonny's BBC Hemi turning 8800 RPM and 1579 Peak HP at 8200 RPM
thats 6527 FPM Piston Speed at 8800 RPM ... during racing its often 9000+ RPM ( we start the Dyno Pull at 6800 RPM on this BBC Hemi )

you can always use 1 of the big Hemi Valve Covers as a Parts Cleaner if you flip it upside down :D

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Re: Opinions on SBC intakes

Post by treyrags » Tue May 01, 2018 3:52 pm

maxracesoftware wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 2:17 pm


the 2 best sounding Engines i've had on my Dyno so far were
Craig's A/ND and B/ND SBC 407-409cid turning 9800 RPM with Zoomie Headers
the sound is unreal ... we start the Pull at 8500+ RPM ...

How sensitive is that engine to the length on the zoomies?

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Re: Opinions on SBC intakes

Post by maxracesoftware » Tue May 01, 2018 9:07 pm

treyrags wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 3:52 pm
maxracesoftware wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 2:17 pm


the 2 best sounding Engines i've had on my Dyno so far were
Craig's A/ND and B/ND SBC 407-409cid turning 9800 RPM with Zoomie Headers
the sound is unreal ... we start the Pull at 8500+ RPM ...

How sensitive is that engine to the length on the zoomies?
we have not yet tried a significant difference in Lengths to see the effects

both SBC have super flat TQ and HP Curves ... both the TQ and HP Graph lines are just straight parallel lines to each other

great TQ and HP , does not seem to need a Plenum or a Collector,
the amounts of TQ and HP calculate the same as if it had a Plenum or Collector .
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Re: Opinions on SBC intakes

Post by MELWAY » Wed May 02, 2018 8:02 pm

October 11 2013 12:56:33 PM
OCT11012.SFD
Dyno Test# 12 with old Edelbrock #2970 Super Victor
Peak TQ= 578.1 at 6500
Peak HP= 815.8 at 8200<<---- this is with only 322 CFM @ 28" inches
If he gets them to flow any more it will make less power.
... 8) ... i see someone is catching on :)

355 CFM should make less HP ..at best => no difference in HP :)

would need to weldup the AFR's Pushrod Pinch area + Offset Rockers + Lifters to make higher RPM HP than 8000-8300 RPM Range
and to effectively use more than 325 CFM

317 to 325 CFM ... is all you need to make 800+ HP at 8000 to 8300 Peak HP RPM Range 8)
that will run low 8.30 to 8.40's second ET's at 162+ MPH in 2450 lbs Berretta
[/quote]


Larry
What kind of area or dimensions do you end up with at pushrod pinch and intake gasket on the Killer Dart pro 1s??

Even the AFR245npp is around 1206 gasket and small at pinch. And when dyno tested on 434" engines shows pumping losses and drop in power curve above 7400 rpm

I'm considering a dyno test on just port enlargement on a AFR 245
3370lb Sedan 9.89@136MPH 358chevN/A

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Re: Opinions on SBC intakes

Post by maxracesoftware » Thu May 03, 2018 12:57 pm

Larry
What kind of area or dimensions do you end up with at pushrod pinch and intake gasket on the Killer Dart pro 1s??

Even the AFR245npp is around 1206 gasket and small at pinch. And when dyno tested on 434" engines shows pumping losses and drop in power curve above 7400 rpm

I'm considering a dyno test on just port enlargement on a AFR 245
when the Dart Pro 1 Intake Port CC were 240cc it made near 807 Peak HP
after more Porting the CC's were 245 and 246cc's poured 2 Intake Ports with my Buret and made 815.8 Peak HP on a 442cid size
815.8 / 442 = 1.8457 1.8457 x 434cid = 801.0 Peak HP potential and a 434cid should make Peak HP a little higher than 442cid

what's your Pushrod Pinch Width = ?
What are your Cam Specs if you can Post ?
Comp Ratio and Carb CFM and Intake Manifold and Oil Pan design
Fuel ? , Vac-Pump , Headers
any Flow Numbers and Pitot FPS at the Pinch and on the Floor's Apex ?

what i did with the Brodix Track 1's was Port the Intake Ports identical to the 245-246cc Dart Pro 1 aluminum Templates
and they make just about identical HP .. i had to lower + slow down the Track 1's Floor Apex speed a lot in the process .

the Track 1's and the Dart Pro 1's have very rough carbide finishes everywhere = Chambers + Exh Ports + Int Ports + Manifold
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Re: Opinions on SBC intakes

Post by maxracesoftware » Thu May 03, 2018 3:11 pm

maxracesoftware wrote:
Thu May 03, 2018 12:57 pm
Larry
What kind of area or dimensions do you end up with at pushrod pinch and intake gasket on the Killer Dart pro 1s??

Even the AFR245npp is around 1206 gasket and small at pinch. And when dyno tested on 434" engines shows pumping losses and drop in power curve above 7400 rpm

I'm considering a dyno test on just port enlargement on a AFR 245
when the Dart Pro 1 Intake Port CC were 240cc it made near 807 Peak HP
after more Porting the CC's were 245 and 246cc's poured 2 Intake Ports with my Buret and made 815.8 Peak HP on a 442cid size
815.8 / 442 = 1.8457 1.8457 x 434cid = 801.0 Peak HP potential and a 434cid should make Peak HP a little higher than 442cid

what's your Pushrod Pinch Width = ?
What are your Cam Specs if you can Post ?
Comp Ratio and Carb CFM and Intake Manifold and Oil Pan design
Fuel ? , Vac-Pump , Headers
any Flow Numbers and Pitot FPS at the Pinch and on the Floor's Apex ?

what i did with the Brodix Track 1's was Port the Intake Ports identical to the 245-246cc Dart Pro 1 aluminum Templates
and they make just about identical HP .. i had to lower + slow down the Track 1's Floor Apex speed a lot in the process .

the Track 1's and the Dart Pro 1's have very rough carbide finishes everywhere = Chambers + Exh Ports + Int Ports + Manifold
the Vertical Templates of the Dart Pro 1 + Brodix Track 1 ... are "proprietary" , so there's no Pics

Click on the 2 Pics to see much larger versions
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
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Re: Opinions on SBC intakes

Post by MELWAY » Thu May 03, 2018 5:34 pm

Wow. Awesome templates. Those short turns have a lot of attention to detail

The shelf 245npp make 750hp with 12.5:1 1050 carb and 278/286 camshafts
But they don't seem to show the HP in the car or accelerate down racetrack like the dyno suggests
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Re: Opinions on SBC intakes

Post by maxracesoftware » Thu May 03, 2018 7:57 pm

MELWAY wrote:
Thu May 03, 2018 5:34 pm
Wow. Awesome templates. Those short turns have a lot of attention to detail

The shelf 245npp make 750hp with 12.5:1 1050 carb and 278/286 camshafts
But they don't seem to show the HP in the car or accelerate down racetrack like the dyno suggests
the Templates are minimum CSA's ... i usually end up a little larger, same for Intake Short Turn Curve templates ,
the Exhaust template pics are perfect matchup to actual Curves

a 434cid with AFR245NPP 245 CC Intake Port ... making its Peak HP at 7400 RPM
not really using all the Flow CFM potential .

i've seen on my Dyno and the Dragstrip the very same : " does not accelerate down racetrack like the dyno suggests "
its usually 1st sign Intake Port velocity is not correct ( if all else is correct ? )
it gets even worse on a 4 or 5 speed manual trans application , if the Intake Port velocity is too fast .

what did the AFR 245NPP flowtest on your Flowbench ?

and how high RPM do you want to run your 434cid ?
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Re: Opinions on SBC intakes

Post by statsystems » Thu May 03, 2018 8:18 pm

maxracesoftware wrote:
Thu May 03, 2018 7:57 pm
MELWAY wrote:
Thu May 03, 2018 5:34 pm
Wow. Awesome templates. Those short turns have a lot of attention to detail

The shelf 245npp make 750hp with 12.5:1 1050 carb and 278/286 camshafts
But they don't seem to show the HP in the car or accelerate down racetrack like the dyno suggests
the Templates are minimum CSA's ... i usually end up a little larger, same for Intake Short Turn Curve templates ,
the Exhaust template pics are perfect matchup to actual Curves

a 434cid with AFR245NPP 245 CC Intake Port ... making its Peak HP at 7400 RPM
not really using all the Flow CFM potential .

i've seen on my Dyno and the Dragstrip the very same : " does not accelerate down racetrack like the dyno suggests "
its usually 1st sign Intake Port velocity is not correct ( if all else is correct ? )
it gets even worse on a 4 or 5 speed manual trans application , if the Intake Port velocity is too fast .

what did the AFR 245NPP flowtest on your Flowbench ?

and how high RPM do you want to run your 434cid ?


There is one sentence in this post that blows my mind. I thought I was the only one who saw what you see. Glad to see I'm not a nuts as my wife says I am.

Thanks

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Re: Opinions on SBC intakes

Post by Headguy » Fri May 04, 2018 12:49 am

MELWAY wrote:
Thu May 03, 2018 5:34 pm
Wow. Awesome templates. Those short turns have a lot of attention to detail

The shelf 245npp make 750hp with 12.5:1 1050 carb and 278/286 camshafts
But they don't seem to show the HP in the car or accelerate down racetrack like the dyno suggests
Seems like an optimistic dyno.

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Re: Opinions on SBC intakes

Post by MELWAY » Fri May 04, 2018 8:41 am

Headguy wrote:
Fri May 04, 2018 12:49 am
MELWAY wrote:
Thu May 03, 2018 5:34 pm
Wow. Awesome templates. Those short turns have a lot of attention to detail

The shelf 245npp make 750hp with 12.5:1 1050 carb and 278/286 camshafts
But they don't seem to show the HP in the car or accelerate down racetrack like the dyno suggests
Seems like an optimistic dyno.
How would you figure that when I could list over 20 other engines that show exactly or more HP on the track than my dyno
3370lb Sedan 9.89@136MPH 358chevN/A

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Re: Opinions on SBC intakes

Post by Scotthatch » Fri May 04, 2018 11:37 am

If there is a big difference in dyno HP and track then need to look at the car setup ... gear ..converter..... question becomes where is it not right at the track to where it should be ... also loading can change tune ... dyno does not load the same as in the car do may have to adjust the tune

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