Opinions on SBC intakes

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Kevin Willis
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Opinions on SBC intakes

Post by Kevin Willis » Thu Apr 26, 2018 1:55 pm

Brodix (HV1002), Dart (42421000), Edelbrock (2970)
Of these three which would you lean to. The only part of the combo that is sorted out yet. SBC 440 ci., AFR 245 head, 13.5 to 1 Diamond.
Will have solid roller cam, have not decided on specs yet and will be using nitrous. Holley list 9375.

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Re: Opinions on SBC intakes

Post by Newold1 » Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:59 pm

In my mind and relating to experiences most successful builds have had, all three are good choices but that is with work. Get the manifold which ever you choose and have it optimized (Ported and clean up) for your high flowing combo as you are probably leaving 25-35 HP on the table if you don't. :wink:

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Re: Opinions on SBC intakes

Post by Walter R. Malik » Thu Apr 26, 2018 11:51 pm

Kevin Willis wrote:
Thu Apr 26, 2018 1:55 pm
Brodix (HV1002), Dart (42421000), Edelbrock (2970)
Of these three which would you lean to. The only part of the combo that is sorted out yet. SBC 440 ci., AFR 245 head, 13.5 to 1 Diamond.
Will have solid roller cam, have not decided on specs yet and will be using nitrous. Holley list 9375.
RPM working range and the entire vehicle combination with how it will be used ... might make a difference
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Re: Opinions on SBC intakes

Post by Ron E » Fri Apr 27, 2018 11:50 am

Another to consider is a World products Motown. Like all of the above they need work. But, the general shape of the plenum is good. So, they come around pretty quick.

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Re: Opinions on SBC intakes

Post by GARY C » Fri Apr 27, 2018 3:56 pm

B Original wrote:
Fri Apr 27, 2018 12:00 pm
Holley Keith Dorton series? Intake 300-110.

https://www.holley.com/products/intakes ... ts/300-110
That would be my choice, ported with a Dominator adapter, 440 inches on nitrous don't favor runner extensions taking up plenum volume, they are good for NA in some cases but few are actually cast for 440 inches.

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Re: Opinions on SBC intakes

Post by MTENGINES » Fri Apr 27, 2018 3:59 pm

300-110 OR THE 2970.
Cam around mid 270s/280 .750 lift or more.
Those heads are too small at the gasket btw.

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Re: Opinions on SBC intakes

Post by GARY C » Fri Apr 27, 2018 4:30 pm

One problem with the 2970 is if your running a plate nitrous system you are spraying the top of the clover leaf, this is the intake Billy Glidden got Edelbrock to do for his big ci 18* small blocks with nitrous, it still needs porting but starts at a 3.2 cross section runner, many guys find et buy paying to machine out the clover leaf and most of the extensions on the 2970.
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Re: Opinions on SBC intakes

Post by Headguy » Fri Apr 27, 2018 4:52 pm

GARY C wrote:
Fri Apr 27, 2018 4:30 pm
One problem with the 2970 is if your running a plate nitrous system you are spraying the top of the clover leaf, this is the intake Billy Glidden got Edelbrock to do for his big ci 18* small blocks with nitrous, it still needs porting but starts at a 3.2 cross section runner, many guys find et buy paying to machine out the clover leaf and most of the extensions on the 2970.
Image
The problem isn't any of the intakes. It's the size of the engine he is building. I'm my opinion those heads are too small, as well as any off the shelf cast intake. Both need work. Unless you plan on keeping it under 7000rpm and less on spray

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Re: Opinions on SBC intakes

Post by GARY C » Fri Apr 27, 2018 5:17 pm

Yeah the 2 I was involved with years ago was 227 cc range crossing the 1/8 mile trap at 6800 5.50 et and the intake still was not sufficient for that.

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Re: Opinions on SBC intakes

Post by maxracesoftware » Fri Apr 27, 2018 5:26 pm

Kevin Willis wrote:
Thu Apr 26, 2018 1:55 pm
Brodix (HV1002), Dart (42421000), Edelbrock (2970)
Of these three which would you lean to. The only part of the combo that is sorted out yet. SBC 440 ci., AFR 245 head, 13.5 to 1 Diamond.
Will have solid roller cam, have not decided on specs yet and will be using nitrous. Holley list 9375.
if you have enough Camshaft + you want a max-effort 440cid Engine

then the Edelbrock #2925 + Moroso#65000 2inch adapter spacer .. all maxed out will make great HP
likewise the Edelbrock #2970

those 2 Manifold combos will make more hi RPM HP than either Brodix HV or Dart Manifolds

http://www.maxracesoftwares.com/forum/v ... =2&start=0

http://www.maxracesoftwares.com/forum/v ... ?f=5&t=106

October 11 2013 12:56:33 PM
OCT11012.SFD
Dyno Test# 12 with old Edelbrock #2970 Super Victor
Peak TQ= 578.1 at 6500
Peak HP= 815.8 at 8200

Code: Select all

October 11 2013 12:56:33 PM
OCT11012.SFD
Dyno Test# 12 with old Edelbrock #2970 Super Victor
Peak TQ= 578.1 at 6500
Peak HP= 815.8 at 8200

October_11_2013 Kirk Dupuis and Chris SBC442.3 4.195x4.000
Dart Pro1 2.125/1.600 maxed out  - rough carbide
Chris Dyno Headers 2.000x11.0/2.125x20.0  4.000x13.0 Collector
Starr Vac Pump
Cam Motion solid roller 
Jesel 1.80/1.70  
13.558:1 CR Q-16 Race Gas
Welded maxed out new Edelbrock Super Victor
ProSystems 1570 CFM carb on Meaux Flowbench
Billet Fab alum pan  LAT 15 Breakin
-------------------------

36 btdc .025 Lash across
105 jet sizes from 102 front and rear
.154 from .142 rear only drill sizes
38 from 36 btdc
40 from 38 btdc
retard Cam 2 deg to 116 from 114
.153 from .142 front jets
.160 from .154 in rear only
retard Cam to 118 from 116

201 cranking Psi at 250-253 RPM 16-Volts

put on old Edelbrock 2970 SuperVictor manifold

          COLUMN AVERAGES
 Test: OCT11012
 Corrected Torque and HorsePower
 Range: 6300 RPM - 8300 RPM

 EngSpd:   7300 RPM
 STPTrq:  553.1 Clb-ft
 STPPwr:  766.5 CHp
 BSFC  :  0.529 lb/hph
 Fuel A:  182.8 lb/hr
 Fuel B:  185.6 lb/hr
 Oil P :   79.5 psig
 WtrOut:    127 degF
 ManPrs:  -16.8 inHg

EngSpd	STPTrq	STPPwr	 BSFC 	Fuel A	Fuel B	FulA+B	Oil P 	ManPrs	WtrOut
 RPM  	Clb-ft	 CHp  	lb/hph	lb/hr 	lb/hr 	 lb/hr	 psig 	 inHg 	 degF 
6300	573.3	687.7	0.556	165	185.4	350.4	75.1	-16.7	125
6400	572.7	697.9	0.549	167.3	183.2	350.5	75.2	-16.8	125
6500	578.1	715.5	0.555	166.5	197	363.5	75.3	-16.7	126
6600	576.9	725	0.555	180.8	187.1	367.9	75.7	-16.7	126
6700	573.9	732.2	0.556	191.5	180.5	372	76.1	-16.7	126
6800	574.2	743.4	0.549	185.8	187.2	373	76.8	-16.7	126
6900	566.7	744.5	0.536	181.5	183	364.5	77.3	-16.7	126
7000	571.6	761.9	0.524	181.9	182.1	364	77.9	-16.7	126
7100	564.6	763.3	0.535	187.2	184.9	372.1	78.5	-16.7	126
7200	560.7	768.7	0.539	178.4	199.2	377.6	79.1	-16.8	126
7300	557.4	774.7	0.526	186	185.1	371.1	79.7	-16.8	127
7400	551.8	777.5	0.535	192.2	186	378.2	80.3	-16.8	127
7500	551.1	786.9	0.5	182.1	175.5	357.6	80	-16.7	128
7600	544.1	787.3	0.501	174.5	183.6	358.1	81.2	-16.8	128
7700	543.3	796.5	0.533	190.3	195.3	385.6	81.6	-16.8	128
7800	537.3	797.9	0.517	178.3	196	374.3	82	-16.8	128
7900	536.5	807	0.508	185.7	186.1	371.8	82.4	-16.8	129
8000	527.5	803.4	0.502	191.6	174	365.6	82.9	-16.8	129
8100	527.9	814.1	0.494	181.6	181.9	363.5	83.6	-17.1	129
8200	522.5	815.8	0.514	190.1	187.8	377.9	84.1	-17.3	130
8300	503.8	796.2	0.526	201	176.8	377.8	84.9	-17.3	130
____________________________________________________________________________
Last edited by maxracesoftware on Fri Apr 27, 2018 5:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Opinions on SBC intakes

Post by B Original » Fri Apr 27, 2018 5:29 pm

Headguy wrote:
Fri Apr 27, 2018 4:52 pm
The problem isn't any of the intakes. It's the size of the engine he is building. I'm my opinion those heads are too small, as well as any off the shelf cast intake. Both need work. Unless you plan on keeping it under 7000rpm and less on spray
I think the afr 245 will do ok, I would think if he isn't turning it over 7000 RPM he needs get them to flow 345+ cfm at lift. he can maybe stretch it to 7500 with 355 cfm

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Re: Opinions on SBC intakes

Post by Scotthatch » Fri Apr 27, 2018 6:12 pm

Even a 337 cfm and whatever cam and lift anyone talking about kinda thinking a 1050 carb may be a limiting factor .... also anyone know if these intakes come close to cross section of the head or head flow??

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Re: Opinions on SBC intakes

Post by MTENGINES » Fri Apr 27, 2018 6:32 pm

B Original wrote:
Fri Apr 27, 2018 5:29 pm
Headguy wrote:
Fri Apr 27, 2018 4:52 pm
The problem isn't any of the intakes. It's the size of the engine he is building. I'm my opinion those heads are too small, as well as any off the shelf cast intake. Both need work. Unless you plan on keeping it under 7000rpm and less on spray
I think the afr 245 will do ok, I would think if he isn't turning it over 7000 RPM he needs get them to flow 345+ cfm at lift. he can maybe stretch it to 7500 with 355 cfm
If he gets them to flow any more it will make less power.

He needs to slow them down and increase the cross section (gasket area).
How many sets of these heads have you used? Out of curiosity.

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Re: Opinions on SBC intakes

Post by maxracesoftware » Fri Apr 27, 2018 6:42 pm

MTENGINES wrote:
Fri Apr 27, 2018 6:32 pm
B Original wrote:
Fri Apr 27, 2018 5:29 pm
Headguy wrote:
Fri Apr 27, 2018 4:52 pm
The problem isn't any of the intakes. It's the size of the engine he is building. I'm my opinion those heads are too small, as well as any off the shelf cast intake. Both need work. Unless you plan on keeping it under 7000rpm and less on spray
I think the afr 245 will do ok, I would think if he isn't turning it over 7000 RPM he needs get them to flow 345+ cfm at lift. he can maybe stretch it to 7500 with 355 cfm
If he gets them to flow any more it will make less power.

He needs to slow them down and increase the cross section (gasket area).
How many sets of these heads have you used? Out of curiosity.

October 11 2013 12:56:33 PM
OCT11012.SFD
Dyno Test# 12 with old Edelbrock #2970 Super Victor
Peak TQ= 578.1 at 6500
Peak HP= 815.8 at 8200<<---- this is with only 322 CFM @ 28" inches
If he gets them to flow any more it will make less power.
... 8) ... i see someone is catching on :)

355 CFM should make less HP ..at best => no difference in HP :)

would need to weldup the AFR's Pushrod Pinch area + Offset Rockers + Lifters to make higher RPM HP than 8000-8300 RPM Range
and to effectively use more than 325 CFM

317 to 325 CFM ... is all you need to make 800+ HP at 8000 to 8300 Peak HP RPM Range 8)
that will run low 8.30 to 8.40's second ET's at 162+ MPH in 2450 lbs Berretta
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PipeMax v3.98   http://www.maxracesoftwares.com/forum/v ... f=14&t=249

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Re: Opinions on SBC intakes

Post by MTENGINES » Fri Apr 27, 2018 6:51 pm

maxracesoftware wrote:
Fri Apr 27, 2018 6:42 pm
MTENGINES wrote:
Fri Apr 27, 2018 6:32 pm
B Original wrote:
Fri Apr 27, 2018 5:29 pm

I think the afr 245 will do ok, I would think if he isn't turning it over 7000 RPM he needs get them to flow 345+ cfm at lift. he can maybe stretch it to 7500 with 355 cfm
If he gets them to flow any more it will make less power.

He needs to slow them down and increase the cross section (gasket area).
How many sets of these heads have you used? Out of curiosity.

October 11 2013 12:56:33 PM
OCT11012.SFD
Dyno Test# 12 with old Edelbrock #2970 Super Victor
Peak TQ= 578.1 at 6500
Peak HP= 815.8 at 8200<<---- this is with only 322 CFM @ 28" inches
If he gets them to flow any more it will make less power.
... 8) ... i see someone is catching on :)

355 CFM should make less HP ..at best => no difference in HP :)

would need to weldup the AFR's Pushrod Pinch area + Offset Rockers + Lifters to make higher RPM HP than 8000-8300 RPM Range
and to effectively use more than 325 CFM

317 to 325 CFM ... is all you need to make 800+ HP at 8000 to 8300 Peak HP RPM Range 8)
that will run low 8.30 to 8.40's second ET's at 162+ MPH in 2450 lbs Berretta
:D

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