Divorced idle circuits

[swampbuggy]

Norm, here are the basics of the engine 4.200 x 3.375 =374 C.I., Dart Iron buzzard (LOL), Winberg crank w/1.850 rod journals, Carrillo w/Carr bolts, C-P box pistons with lightening options wrist pin just under oil ring groove .9 .9 2mm ring pak., appx. 14 to 1 stat. comp, Brodix 18 deg. C head is flowing right at 370 at .700 lift w/ a 2.200 w/ 45 deg. seat, mid flow is great, 55mm cam with .937 keyway lifters .850 wheel, recommended cam spec.'s .786/.741 274/280 @.050" 108 LSA LS firing order, will be a crank triggered system and YES it will be locked in. Dry Sump system 6 stage. Intake is a extensively reworked Eddy 2958 taking away only 5 CFM. at .700" @ 28" . Mark H. hoping for power to 8500, hoping for 748 min.

[NormS]

Thanks, Mark. That's definitely a combo that will need the RPM's kept up. But I'm sure you know that, and have geared the car accordingly. I recommend a modified Holley 850, flowing 1130CFM. On a nice intake like yours, that would be enough flow to make the power you want, with a little to spare. I have some customers making 770-820 HP with this carb. When the calibration is done right , this carb can be used on a surprisingly small engine. Years ago I had a customer with an ex ARCA 276ci Chevy V6, in a road race car. With one of these modified 850's, his engine, on the dyno, picked up torque and HP through the whole RPM range where his engine was designed to run, compared to the 900CFM he had been using. The driveability was actually better than with the smaller carb, and that was due to the calibration that this bigger carb had. HP at peak power was up 20, and peak torque was up 11 ft-lbs, with the same A/F ratios as the smaller carb. So, I wouldn't hesitate to run this size carb on your 374 engine. Like your engine, that 276 V6 was a short stroke engine. The owner geared the car accordingly, and it was quite competitive. By the way , his cam was 276°-282°@.050"/108°LSA, and made peak HP at 7900, with 18° heads and a real nice cross ram intake. I think your 18° heads flow better than his did.

[Walter R. Malik]

What Chrysler did nearly 50 years ago had little impact on performance carburetors back then, and little to none since. You might try joining the 21st
century. You seem to think that those divorced idle metering blocks were the greatest thing since sliced bread. They weren't, and still aren't.

I don't think that at all ... but, I do have the willingness to accept they existed and were indeed used at some time in high performance applications; albeit, a long time ago.
I am just being sure that everyone here knows this simple banter is that you simply will not accept that reality, no matter how long ago it happened.

The normal circuited original 4150 carburetor was introduced by Holley 62 yeas ago; just a bit sooner.

[NormS]

I accept the reality that Chrysler had those carbs, and that they were of little use on competition engines. I investigated them some 40 years ago, found them to be insufficient for racing, and moved on. That is accepting reality. Just because something existed, doesn't mean you have to bow down to it, as some sort of tribute to it, a tribute to something that was inferior.

[Walter R. Malik]

I accept the reality that Chrysler had those carbs, and that they were of little use on competition engines. I investigated them some 40 years ago, found them to be insufficient for racing, and moved on. That is accepting reality. Just because something existed, doesn't mean you have to bow down to it, as some sort of tribute to it, a tribute to something that was inferior.

I think you should go back and read the original post of this thread.
He was ASKING for information about these circuits, their use and developments; good, bad and indifferent.
NOTHING about how long ago they were readily used.
They were definitely not inferior but, probably not necessary for racing and therefore never advanced.

REALITY.

[NormS]

Yes, He was asking. And you kept inferring that Your WAy is the only way, and that anyone who disagrees is inexperienced or too stupid to realize that they should do it the Malik Way.

[Tuner]

My way is the only way.

What are you guys going on about? If you read the whole thread from the beginning you will see you are both arguing the same points with different syntax, so you are actually agreeing but being stubborn about it.

Meanwhile, my way is the only way, and don't forget it.

Don't make me have to tell you twice.

[NormS]

what was that?

[Walter R. Malik]

Just to be clear here, I NEVER mentioned or inferred through this entire thread, "my way" is the ONLY way ... simply displayed the facts.
Your comprehension must have read into it.
Actually, I performed those "divorced Idle" modifications to satisfy someone else' way.

Nobodies way is the only way ...

[modok]

I don't see any reason this application would need it, probably as far away as you can get from needing it.

It can be used to counter the WOT enriching effect when you have highly pulsating flow. IR carbs, or smaller volume manifolds each plane feeding four or less cylinders. maybe if on a supercharger?

[NormS]

So now you're saying those divorced idle mod's weren't even your idea. Are you trying to distance yourself from the divorced idle approach now? Sure looks like it.

And tell me what you were inferring here, when you said this:

"You probably never have had any personal experience, used or witnessed the use of a performance carburetor having a true "divorced Idle 3rd circuit". In such a case, the off-idle and tip-in fuel curve control can be more precise for less fuel consumption; especially with the 830 cfm Holley NASCAR carb or any carb being used in a 12/24 hour racing application".
"You possibly don't know how to perform this easy conversion on a high performance Holley carb using those Mopar metering blocks., if you were asked to do it."
"THEREFORE, it is almost certain you can't envision it would be worth anything in any high performance carburetor setting. You just know it can not be of any value there."

Are those words not inferring a lack of experience , or an inability to conceive of an idea and put it into practice? I think they are.

[Walter R. Malik]

So now you're saying those divorced idle mod's weren't even your idea. Are you trying to distance yourself from the divorced idle approach now? Sure looks like it.

And tell me what you were inferring here, when you said this:

"You probably never have had any personal experience, used or witnessed the use of a performance carburetor having a true "divorced Idle 3rd circuit". In such a case, the off-idle and tip-in fuel curve control can be more precise for less fuel consumption; especially with the 830 cfm Holley NASCAR carb or any carb being used in a 12/24 hour racing application".
"You possibly don't know how to perform this easy conversion on a high performance Holley carb using those Mopar metering blocks., if you were asked to do it."
"THEREFORE, it is almost certain you can't envision it would be worth anything in any high performance carburetor setting. You just know it can not be of any value there."

Are those words not inferring a lack of experience , or an inability to conceive of an idea and put it into practice? I think they are.

Wow ... defensive comprehension at its best.
That merely exclaims that the way you described is not the only way it can be done because, you possibly have never done anything else as that and better fuel control can be had.
A bit "tongue in cheek" perhaps but, from all your following posts, that appears it might have been correct.

Says absolutely nothing about any other way being the ONLY way.

[swampbuggy]

Guys PLEASE let this end, Mark H.

[Walter R. Malik]

Guys PLEASE let this end, Mark H.

As long as there is an attack ... I should fend it off.
There is a big difference between the sward and the shield.

[Tuner]

These blind men of Carburetorstan
Disputing loud and long,
Each in his own opinion
Exceeding stiff and strong,
Though each was partly in the right,
And all were in the wrong!

As they'be been groping 'round the Elephant
They must have no sense of smell,
Lest they'd know what they've been stepping in
As this thread has gone so well.

There is something in the Gasoline
In Carburetorstan,
That makes every Carburetor Man
Think he is the one to understand.


OP, did you get some clues from all this or would you still like to have any of your original questions answered?