Resistor plugs & resistor wires?

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Re: Resistor plugs & resistor wires?

Post by Tuner » Sat Apr 14, 2018 1:38 pm

Resistor wires and plugs reduce spark amperage, so reduce plug electrode erosion. Old school 6 volt points systems with solid wires and non-resistor plugs will erode the plug gap .015" in 10,000 miles. A GM HEI with a low resistance button in the cap and solid wire plug wires will eat the side electrodes to little nubs in 15,000 miles.

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Re: Resistor plugs & resistor wires?

Post by MadBill » Sat Apr 14, 2018 1:59 pm

Kevin Johnson wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 11:01 am
..
Aside: It is important to remember that the pacemaker had not misfired again in the several days that he was sharing the room with me. The doctors did not ask about that or seem to see any connection with where he was or what he was doing when the misfiring occurred. Sigh.
When I was fitted with a 'ticker-picker-upper' a few years back, I was instructed to stay out of power stations and aluminum foundries, not to take up a career in arc-welding and to let someone else twist the distributor when setting engine timing. So far so good, except for setting off my alarm once by getting a magnetic screwdriver too close to the device. #-o
Felix, qui potuit rerum cognscere causas.

Happy is he who can discover the cause of things.

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Re: Resistor plugs & resistor wires?

Post by Kevin Johnson » Sat Apr 14, 2018 3:59 pm

MadBill wrote:
When I was fitted with a 'ticker-picker-upper' a few years back, I was instructed to stay out of power stations and aluminum foundries, not to take up a career in arc-welding and to let someone else twist the distributor when setting engine timing. So far so good, except for setting off my alarm once by getting a magnetic screwdriver too close to the device. #-o
http://md.utoronto.ca/admissions http://www.engineering.utoronto.ca/

Note the correlation. :wink:


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Re: Resistor plugs & resistor wires?

Post by exhaustgases » Sat Apr 14, 2018 4:33 pm

Kevin Johnson wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:33 am
http://www.mtfca.com/cgi-bin/discus/board-profile.cgi?action=view_profile&profile=ndnchf-users wrote:Back in the day, Champion made a plug tester that has a pressurized chamber for testing plugs. It has a model T coil inside and connects to an air compressor. I have one and it works great. I set the pressure at around 55 lbs to test T plugs. The difference in spark is eye opening.
Champion 1.gifChampion 2.gif
You can still get spark plug testers, I've used them in the past as well. It does seem counter intuitive that closer molecules would offer more resistance.

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Re: Resistor plugs & resistor wires?

Post by user-23911 » Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:52 pm

It takes a set amount of energy to break the electron free from the nucleus.
More molecules between the electrodes means more energy required.

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Re: Resistor plugs & resistor wires?

Post by Kevin Johnson » Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:08 pm

exhaustgases wrote: ... It does seem counter intuitive that closer molecules would offer more resistance.
https://web.archive.org/web/20170203092 ... te1425.pdf

See Table 1 in 2.1.1

BTW, you might want to snag this at no cost prior to it being discovered and being deleted. It was archived exactly one time.

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Re: Resistor plugs & resistor wires?

Post by nitro2 » Sun Apr 15, 2018 1:18 pm

exhaustgases wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 4:33 pm
Kevin Johnson wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:33 am
http://www.mtfca.com/cgi-bin/discus/board-profile.cgi?action=view_profile&profile=ndnchf-users wrote:Back in the day, Champion made a plug tester that has a pressurized chamber for testing plugs. It has a model T coil inside and connects to an air compressor. I have one and it works great. I set the pressure at around 55 lbs to test T plugs. The difference in spark is eye opening.
Champion 1.gifChampion 2.gif
You can still get spark plug testers, I've used them in the past as well. It does seem counter intuitive that closer molecules would offer more resistance.
Low pressure spark plug testers are commercially available, but proper testers use higher pressures and a modern relevant ignition system, ideally a high powered racing engine ignition system.

Air is not a resistor, nor a conductor.
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Re: Resistor plugs & resistor wires?

Post by exhaustgases » Sun Apr 15, 2018 6:57 pm

joe 90 wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:52 pm
It takes a set amount of energy to break the electron free from the nucleus.
More molecules between the electrodes means more energy required.
How about with metals? They are closer yet.
Now it would be interesting to know how it affects chemical reactions, combustion.

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Re: Resistor plugs & resistor wires?

Post by Circlotron » Sun Apr 15, 2018 11:23 pm

exhaustgases wrote:
Sun Apr 15, 2018 6:57 pm
joe 90 wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:52 pm
It takes a set amount of energy to break the electron free from the nucleus.
More molecules between the electrodes means more energy required.
How about with metals? They are closer yet.
Now it would be interesting to know how it affects chemical reactions, combustion.
The number of electrons in the outer shell of the atom makes all the difference.
Three or less means it is a conductor. Less is better.
Five up to eight is an insulator. More is is better.

With an insulator you have to apply *way* more effort to get those outer shell electrons moving from one atom to the next. Copper has only one outer shell electron so is easy peasy.

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Re: Resistor plugs & resistor wires?

Post by user-23911 » Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:13 am

exhaustgases wrote:
Sun Apr 15, 2018 6:57 pm

How about with metals? They are closer yet.
Now it would be interesting to know how it affects chemical reactions, combustion.

You learn that at school, or at least we did way back as 11 year olds. But probably not these days.

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Re: Resistor plugs & resistor wires?

Post by exhaustgases » Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:53 am

joe 90 wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:13 am
exhaustgases wrote:
Sun Apr 15, 2018 6:57 pm

How about with metals? They are closer yet.
Now it would be interesting to know how it affects chemical reactions, combustion.

You learn that at school, or at least we did way back as 11 year olds. But probably not these days.
So what is that comment for? I'm 11 almost times 6 and know well about valence electrons. Just trying to make an interesting discussion.
When I was a kid climbing towers I didn't have enough sense not to I could feel the affects of the electrical discharge on a 90 degree dry summer day on my arms/ hair etc. There was no arcing to me if there would have been I'd not be here now. Just saying.......


And from Kevins info.

As mentioned earlier [6, 14], nitrogen is an ideal gas
to use: it is abundant, cheap, inert, non-toxic, nonflammable,
and unquestionably environmentally
acceptable.
However, nitrogen is a non-electronegative gas (it
does not attach electrons) and for this reason its dielectric
strength is rather low. Nitrogen, however, is a strong
electron-slowing down gas and this property accounts for
its relatively good dielectric properties in non-uniform
fields and in the presence of conducting particles, and for
its excellent performance in mixtures with electronegative

And for airs resistance found this.
Its resistivity is approx. 2x10^16 ohm-meter

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Re: Resistor plugs & resistor wires?

Post by Firedome8 » Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:29 pm

exhaustgases wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:53 am
joe 90 wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:13 am
exhaustgases wrote:
Sun Apr 15, 2018 6:57 pm

How about with metals? They are closer yet.
Now it would be interesting to know how it affects chemical reactions, combustion.

You learn that at school, or at least we did way back as 11 year olds. But probably not these days.
So what is that comment for? I'm 11 almost times 6 and know well about valence electrons. Just trying to make an interesting discussion.
When I was a kid climbing towers I didn't have enough sense not to I could feel the affects of the electrical discharge on a 90 degree dry summer day on my arms/ hair etc. There was no arcing to me if there would have been I'd not be here now. Just saying.......


And from Kevins info.

As mentioned earlier [6, 14], nitrogen is an ideal gas
to use: it is abundant, cheap, inert, non-toxic, nonflammable,
and unquestionably environmentally
acceptable.
However, nitrogen is a non-electronegative gas (it
does not attach electrons) and for this reason its dielectric
strength is rather low. Nitrogen, however, is a strong
electron-slowing down gas and this property accounts for
its relatively good dielectric properties in non-uniform
fields and in the presence of conducting particles, and for
its excellent performance in mixtures with electronegative

And for airs resistance found this.
Its resistivity is approx. 2x10^16 ohm-meter
The term dielectric strength May be more fitting description approx 20kv/cm.

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Re: Resistor plugs & resistor wires?

Post by Fred Winterburn » Fri Apr 20, 2018 5:12 pm

There is always a significant voltage overshoot prior to the spark occurring beyond the actual voltage requirement for the spark itself. Because some energy is required to ionize the gap prior to breakdown (in the form of a corona discharge), there is some current flow prior to the actual spark. Adding more secondary side resistance results in a measurable increase in the voltage overshoot. It's only a few percent, but not negligible. So yes, adding secondary side resistance does increase the voltage required for spark breakdown. Of course, increased secondary side resistance also leads to lower total spark energy and duration. I've added an article I wrote that doesn't discuss secondary side resistance in particular but does discuss voltage overshoot. Fred
Ignition Voltage Overshoot.pdf
Geoff2 wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:05 am
Also, the resistance of the leads is in series with the resistor [ if used ] in the spark plug & this combined resistance, which is also in series with the air gap, is only a fraction of the resistance across the air gap of the plug electrodes. So the resistance of the plug lead + plug resistor has negligible effect on the required voltage to ionise the gap in preparation for spark current to flow. Once current flows across the gap & voltage drops to ~1000-1100v, THEN the circuit resistance has a significant impact [ reduces current ].
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Re: Resistor plugs & resistor wires?

Post by user-23911 » Fri Apr 20, 2018 5:32 pm

exhaustgases wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:53 am


And for airs resistance found this.
Its resistivity is approx. 2x10^16 ohm-meter
Air doesn't have resistance nor resistivity as such.

Resistance implies a fixed relationship between voltage and current and gasses don't behave like that.



Paschen's law states that V = PD.
The breakdown voltage = pressure times distance.


Then after breakdown happens and current begins to flow, the gas exhibits a negative resistance.
More current = less voltage.

Exactly the same as an arc welder.

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Re: Resistor plugs & resistor wires?

Post by Schurkey » Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:37 pm

Fred Winterburn wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 5:12 pm
There is always a significant voltage overshoot prior to the spark occurring beyond the actual voltage requirement for the spark itself.
I learned something new today. Thanks.

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