461X SBC Heads and other Rare SBC Heads

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Re: 461X SBC Heads and other Rare SBC Heads

Post by Krooser » Thu Apr 05, 2018 7:48 am

Don't mean to hijack this but a local guy posted a for sale ad on a FB racing page...

'67 327.... All stock. Matching date codes. Solid lifter cam, 461 heads iirc, correct pistons, Tonawanda built. Not sure but it seems to be either a 365 or 375 HP motor.

Pdq is likely having a coronary right now.
Last place in the B-main is better than anyplace in the grandstands...

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Re: 461X SBC Heads and other Rare SBC Heads

Post by maxracesoftware » Fri Apr 06, 2018 3:18 am

Krooser wrote:
Thu Apr 05, 2018 7:48 am
Don't mean to hijack this but a local guy posted a for sale ad on a FB racing page...

'67 327.... All stock. Matching date codes. Solid lifter cam, 461 heads iirc, correct pistons, Tonawanda built. Not sure but it seems to be either a 365 or 375 HP motor.

Pdq is likely having a coronary right now.
Krooser ... any Web Link to this FaceBook page ?

461 casting number vertical orientation at bottom of Intake Port

Image
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Re: 461X SBC Heads and other Rare SBC Heads

Post by maxracesoftware » Fri Apr 06, 2018 3:19 am

461 casting number vertical orientation at bottom of Intake Port

Image
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Re: 461X SBC Heads and other Rare SBC Heads

Post by maxracesoftware » Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:36 pm

#462 / #461 hybrid casting combination ( #3890462 ) has large T and Large Z
..... has 461 number in D-shaped deck water passage

by tenxal » Tue Apr 03, 2018 8:29 am
From current NHRA specs where 461X heads are recognized for the combinations (generally, '64-66 High perf. 327's)

Cylinder Heads: Casting No. Intake Volume Exhaust Volume
3782461 165.0cc 65.0cc
3782461X 172.0cc 64.0cc

I have seen several sets of 1.94-1.50 461X heads over the years.

I currently run a set of those 461/462 hybrid castings on an NHRA Stocker.
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Re: 461X SBC Heads and other Rare SBC Heads

Post by maxracesoftware » Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:37 pm

#462 / #461 hybrid casting combination ( #3890462 ) has large T and Large Z
..... has 461 number in D-shaped deck water passage


Image
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Re: 461X SBC Heads and other Rare SBC Heads

Post by maxracesoftware » Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:37 pm

#462 / #461 hybrid casting combination ( #3890462 ) has large T and Large Z
..... has 461 number in D-shaped deck water passage


Image
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Re: 461X SBC Heads and other Rare SBC Heads

Post by maxracesoftware » Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:38 pm

#462 / #461 hybrid casting combination ( #3890462 ) has large T and Large Z
..... has 461 number in D-shaped deck water passage

Plain center Pad ... no Fin


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Re: 461X SBC Heads and other Rare SBC Heads

Post by maxracesoftware » Fri Apr 06, 2018 2:00 pm

found (2) pairs of plain #487 castings in my stack of Heads :)
(1) pair of #487X castings

Both these plain #487 and #487X castings are Open Chamber versions , but like their old 'Thick walled" Closed-Chamber cousins :)
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Re: 461X SBC Heads and other Rare SBC Heads

Post by John Wallace » Fri Apr 06, 2018 3:38 pm

Do you keep track of the cast date codes on the heads?

The 462 above has L76 which is Dec 7 1966.

Possibly at some date they changed the design?

:)
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Re: 461X SBC Heads and other Rare SBC Heads

Post by Krooser » Fri Apr 06, 2018 5:28 pm

maxracesoftware wrote:
Fri Apr 06, 2018 3:18 am
Krooser wrote:
Thu Apr 05, 2018 7:48 am
Don't mean to hijack this but a local guy posted a for sale ad on a FB racing page...

'67 327.... All stock. Matching date codes. Solid lifter cam, 461 heads iirc, correct pistons, Tonawanda built. Not sure but it seems to be either a 365 or 375 HP motor.

Pdq is likely having a coronary right now.
Krooser ... any Web Link to this FaceBook page ?

461 casting number vertical orientation at bottom of Intake Port

Image
Can't find that one but there a Chicago guy who has one with 041 heads on FB....Wisconsin Racers Classifieds is the group. I'll keep looking for the other one Tonite.
Last place in the B-main is better than anyplace in the grandstands...

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Re: 461X SBC Heads and other Rare SBC Heads

Post by maxracesoftware » Fri Apr 06, 2018 5:30 pm

John Wallace wrote:
Fri Apr 06, 2018 3:38 pm
Do you keep track of the cast date codes on the heads?

The 462 above has L76 which is Dec 7 1966.

Possibly at some date they changed the design?

:)
i very briefly researched deciphering Date Codes, but gave up quickly :(

just like this Thread ... to do it correctly ... really would need to :
measure Port's various location widths/heights , CSA , including Port CenterLine Lengths, Port Volume CC's, and the Flow testing
... that would be very time consuming to Catalog all these results w/Pics too
so i'm giving up on this Thread too , until later Date when i have more free time .

Still have a bunch of Heads to look thru ... some could be rare ??

PS: i found a pair of those worthless #624's i didn't know i kept ... probably the only pair out of 40 pairs i've seen that weren't cracked somewhere :)
i'd give them away FREE if some one would come by my Shop ... but i'm not going to waste time boxing up + shipping them
Last edited by maxracesoftware on Fri Apr 06, 2018 5:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 461X SBC Heads and other Rare SBC Heads

Post by pamotorman » Fri Apr 06, 2018 5:36 pm

the 461 X intake port cores were the ones used for the still born aluminum heads GM was going to bring out for the 315 HP corvette

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Re: 461X SBC Heads and other Rare SBC Heads

Post by novadude » Fri Apr 06, 2018 6:45 pm

Was there any rhyme or reason for which cars got "x" heads and which got standard 461s? Was it just luck of the draw, or were X heads reserved for certain applications?

You mentioned 487 heads. While we are talking open chambers, were there any unique 441s? I know these are popular in stock and super stock on the 255hp combinations.

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Re: 461X SBC Heads and other Rare SBC Heads

Post by maxracesoftware » Fri Apr 06, 2018 6:55 pm

novadude wrote:
Fri Apr 06, 2018 6:45 pm
Was there any rhyme or reason for which cars got "x" heads and which got standard 461s? Was it just luck of the draw, or were X heads reserved for certain applications?

You mentioned 487 heads. While we are talking open chambers, were there any unique 441s? I know these are popular in stock and super stock on the 255hp combinations.
there were plenty #441 different versions ... there was a "Deep Bowl" version i did for a NHRA Stocker,
at that time , i had other #441 versions to compare against ..the Deep Bowl version Flow tested more CFM
...but now , i have not yet come across a #441 casting in my Shop search .

not 100% correct in memory , but there was as good or better Canadian #441 casting version
at least if not the Head , it was the cast-iron Dual Plane Manifold

there might be even SBC Australian versions i'm not aware of ??? just guessing about Australia

SpeedTalk Forum member = GreenLight or his Brothers ...might know way more info on the #441 castings ?
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Re: 461X SBC Heads and other Rare SBC Heads

Post by GOSFAST » Fri Apr 06, 2018 7:07 pm

novadude wrote:
Fri Apr 06, 2018 6:45 pm
Was there any rhyme or reason for which cars got "x" heads and which got standard 461s? Was it just luck of the draw, or were X heads reserved for certain applications?

You mentioned 487 heads. While we are talking open chambers, were there any unique 441s? I know these are popular in stock and super stock on the 255hp combinations.
As far as I can recall all the 461's cast up to and including the '63 model year were the "X" heads, the '64 model year dropped the "X's".

We have a bunch of experience with those "X" heads, I can tell you many were "destroyed" (on purpose) and "fixed" by an old friend, Al Mathon Sr., he was a master at welding cast iron material!

I believe Larry (up here) knew him really well. Almost every single "X" head he "fixed" ended up setting an NHRA record back in the day!! There was no porting allowed but you could "fix" them when necessary??

(Add) I have few "virgin" sets on the shelf here still, never been machined anywhere! They were all 1.940"/1.500" valves.

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. Al made the infamous Chevy V-16 by welding 2 blocks together in tandem! Here's a shot, it ended up in street rod, was originally destined for "marine" use by Al. He was without a doubt the best cast-iron welder on this planet in his time!
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