461X SBC Heads and other Rare SBC Heads

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Re: 461X SBC Heads and other Rare SBC Heads

Post by maxracesoftware » Sun Apr 01, 2018 11:31 am

fdicrasto wrote:
Sun Apr 01, 2018 11:16 am
I kinda screwed up my response position but you can find my answer in there. Just above the pic.

This head was introduced in 1964 for the 365 hp-375 hp 327 engines.
Factory 2.02"- 1.60" valves.
Of course no screw in studs and were used only with the 11:1 solid lifter 30 30 cam.
1964-1965 Rochester"FI" and single 4 bbl AFB carb/ al. intake.
fdicrasto .... Thanks for this Info .... so sort of another rare pair of #461X's ??

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Re: 461X SBC Heads and other Rare SBC Heads

Post by fdicrasto » Sun Apr 01, 2018 11:36 am

Absolutely. You know in mid '65 Chevy introduced the 425 hp 396 for the Corvette and a few rare Chevelles so the 327 "FI" motor disappeared from production in the corvette.

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Re: 461X SBC Heads and other Rare SBC Heads

Post by Casper393W » Sun Apr 01, 2018 12:26 pm

Carnut1 wrote:
Sun Apr 01, 2018 10:56 am
Casper393W wrote:
Sun Apr 01, 2018 10:40 am
I built a stock bore 350 back in the day..... I ported a set of 461X heads with 2.02/1.60 Manley race flow valves, I had Screw in Studs installed, I used Cast Flattop pistons,. Stock Rods crank etc. I did zero deck the block and it did get line honed.

I slid in a Comp Cams Solid 250/260 @ .050 .532/.555 lift ground on a 106 LSA. With Comp Roller Rockers and a Jomar Stud girdles,. A Holley Strip Dominator intake with a Holley 4779 750 DP.

We dropped it in my buddies 72 Nova (weighs 3200lbs) that had a TH350 with ATI 4500 Treemaster converter, a 12 bolt rear with 4.88 gears... When we first took it to the track we were hoping it would run low 8's in the 1/8 mile... Because the engine was so basic we didn't expect a whole lot....but boy we we're shocked!

On Our first trip it ran 7.23@ 94 mph!!! We were stoked to say the least... I made some 18in collector extensions and I tweaked the Carb some and got it down to 7.0's.

That is my 461X heads story! The car is still running over 20 years later!
Andy, fuelies had good potential with grinding. Did you happen to flow those heads? Thanks, Charlie

No I sure didn't as that was right at the beginning of the internet years and I just basically cleaned them up in the bowls and followed what I had learned from Grumpy Jenkins and David Vizards books.... So I'm sure there was alot left on the table!

Andy

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Re: 461X SBC Heads and other Rare SBC Heads

Post by maxracesoftware » Sun Apr 01, 2018 12:32 pm

fdicrasto wrote:
Sun Apr 01, 2018 11:36 am
Absolutely. You know in mid '65 Chevy introduced the 425 hp 396 for the Corvette and a few rare Chevelles so the 327 "FI" motor disappeared from production in the corvette.
in 1968 , i custom ordered a brand new 1968 Chevelle SS 396/375HP 4-speed Car , Red Stripe UniRoyal tires , etc
raced it a lot in Street Races , and at the various Dragstrips for years,
most of the time i had 5.14:1 Rear Gears in it , but i purchased another differential positive case to run 3.07:1 gears
to go back and forth to College at McNeese in Lake Charles, LA
and i tried a lot of rear gears ratios 3.23,3.42,3.73,4.11,4.56,but i used the 5.14 the longest
ran 7" M&H Race master slicks , Cragar SS Wheels , 2 Carter electric Fuel pumps in my Trunk with Toggle switch located in the ashtray
so when i drag raced , flip the Toggle switch for the 2 Carter Fuel Pumps
90/10 Hurst Grabriel Shocks + 50/50 in rear with Air Bags , plus i welded up created my own Pinion Snubber
... later purchased a Holley 3-Barrell 950 CFM Carb from Jakes Speed Shop in New Orleans for $99.00 USD ...super cheap back then :)
that Carb worked great w/4-Speed on a Dual-Plane + i added a 50cc Pump later on w/custom soldered-in rear squitter tubes.

...i had a Racer friend Machinist , who had a 1968 SS 350 Camaro , who heard you could Bore out the 396/375HP 4-bolt main blocks
to STD Bore 427cid ...kept bugging me to swap engines, so we swapped , i got money + his race 350cid,
later on he broke a Connecting Rod Dragracing it , destroyed my old 396.

i got tired of the 350 in my Chevelle , ordered a complete brand new 396/375HP engine
from Dickie Harrell in Kansas ... ran that 396/375 a few more years , then traded it in on another Car
but before i traded it in, i put the SSCamaros 350cid in it + left the 5.14 rear gears in it

over the next years , i sold off most 396/375 parts
kept the Crank for a long time , and now i only have the 4-Bolt main 396/375HP Block left sitting in my Shop
it has absolutely no wear or top ring ridge in Bores , its a cherry hardly used 4-Bolt Block w/valve notches in top of Bores.

Started racing a 1970 Olds W30 w/another Friend back then , Sponsored by Ray Chevrolet/Olds Car Dealership
provided a new 1970 Chevy Car Hauler Black w/White Interior , which also had a 396cid or 402cid BBC engine :)

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Re: 461X SBC Heads and other Rare SBC Heads

Post by tenxal » Sun Apr 01, 2018 1:10 pm

maxracesoftware wrote:
Sun Apr 01, 2018 12:40 am
i found a few #462 castings ... in the past , some of them had 461 cast in that triangle water passage ...
i guess it was same #461 waterjacket mold used in early #462's ???
I currently run a set of those 461/462 hybrid castings on an NHRA Stocker. :wink:

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Re: 461X SBC Heads and other Rare SBC Heads

Post by ole4 » Sun Apr 01, 2018 1:38 pm

Great thread! Thanks all for posting this information.

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Re: 461X SBC Heads and other Rare SBC Heads

Post by maxracesoftware » Sun Apr 01, 2018 3:01 pm

tenxal wrote:
Sun Apr 01, 2018 1:10 pm
maxracesoftware wrote:
Sun Apr 01, 2018 12:40 am
i found a few #462 castings ... in the past , some of them had 461 cast in that triangle water passage ...
i guess it was same #461 waterjacket mold used in early #462's ???
I currently run a set of those 461/462 hybrid castings on an NHRA Stocker. :wink:
there's been a few different #462 versions thru the years ,
Chevy it seems , was changing various castings quite often !

i found (2) more pairs of plain #041 and (1) pair of #041X Heads
theres also a sort of weird #041X Head that has a big "A" in valve cover area
and it has a much larger raised waterjacket in that Valve Cover area .... so much so, it almost got me in serious trouble :)

i was Porting Jimmy Faul's SS/IA Heads/Manifold + Dynoing , he set SS/IA Record,
then a few more Race Events later on ,a Intake Valve Head broke off on 1 of the Record Heads..destroyed it .
Jimmy supplied me another #041X casting and it had that big letter "A" on it ,
i Ported it/Expoxied/CC'd everything/BronzeGuides, etc ... i assembled Heads/Springs + setup all the Spring Heights like Jimmy wanted,
he picked up the Head went back to Baton Rouge , a few Hours later, Jimmy calls me up mad as can be,
says i setup all the Spring Heights wrong ... Jimmy's looking at the other #041X comparing the Spring Heights from the new #041X Head i did,
theres a bunch of difference just by looking , so he drives back that nite to my Shop ,
i disassemble the Heads for him , show Him all the Spring Pressures + Heights are exactly like he wanted :)
its just that 'A' castings was so drastically different in the valve cover area ... Jimmy apologizes .. goes home .

i'm sure some who read this knew Jimmy back then ?
Jimmy was built "like a Brick House" back then, nobody messed with Jimmy at the Dragstrip
Jimmy and Frank Carmena ( Richard's Ford SS Mustang) use to slug it out at the far end of the Dragstrip in a few incidents
a great Ford / Chevy "Rivalry" ... Cops/Officials use to pull them apart :)
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Re: 461X SBC Heads and other Rare SBC Heads

Post by pamotorman » Sun Apr 01, 2018 9:09 pm

the only 396 that could be bored safely to 4.250 was the original 65 corvette 396 blocks. that was because they were cast up for a 4.250 bore but GM big shots said no engines over 400 cu in so they were made 396 with a smaller bore

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Re: 461X SBC Heads and other Rare SBC Heads

Post by novadude » Sun Apr 01, 2018 9:11 pm

Thanks for sharing, guys. I love seeing the details of all this '60s production stuff.

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Re: 461X SBC Heads and other Rare SBC Heads

Post by maxracesoftware » Mon Apr 02, 2018 12:08 am

cuisinartvette wrote:
Sun Apr 01, 2018 10:57 am
popular combo back then, didnt know the bosses were shaped like that
you ever run into issues with rust from the backside of the bowls when you work on them?
yes, i had a couple of Heads like that i thought were eaten away by rust on waterjacket backsides of Bowls
and it seemed the backsides of the Intake Bowls were always eaten away more than the exhaust,
and so far never really seen the backsides of Exhaust Bowls so bad i could not use them ....its just the intakes.

1 or 2 Heads i just didn't use because of that , i scrapped them .
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Re: 461X SBC Heads and other Rare SBC Heads

Post by SupStk » Mon Apr 02, 2018 7:58 pm

maxracesoftware wrote:
Sun Apr 01, 2018 12:32 pm
fdicrasto wrote:
Sun Apr 01, 2018 11:36 am
Absolutely. You know in mid '65 Chevy introduced the 425 hp 396 for the Corvette and a few rare Chevelles so the 327 "FI" motor disappeared from production in the corvette.
in 1968 , i custom ordered a brand new 1968 Chevelle SS 396/375HP 4-speed Car , Red Stripe UniRoyal tires , etc
raced it a lot in Street Races , and at the various Dragstrips for years,
most of the time i had 5.14:1 Rear Gears in it , but i purchased another differential positive case to run 3.07:1 gears
to go back and forth to College at McNeese in Lake Charles, LA
and i tried a lot of rear gears ratios 3.23,3.42,3.73,4.11,4.56,but i used the 5.14 the longest
ran 7" M&H Race master slicks , Cragar SS Wheels , 2 Carter electric Fuel pumps in my Trunk with Toggle switch located in the ashtray
so when i drag raced , flip the Toggle switch for the 2 Carter Fuel Pumps
90/10 Hurst Grabriel Shocks + 50/50 in rear with Air Bags , plus i welded up created my own Pinion Snubber
... later purchased a Holley 3-Barrell 950 CFM Carb from Jakes Speed Shop in New Orleans for $99.00 USD ...super cheap back then :)
that Carb worked great w/4-Speed on a Dual-Plane + i added a 50cc Pump later on w/custom soldered-in rear squitter tubes.

...i had a Racer friend Machinist , who had a 1968 SS 350 Camaro , who heard you could Bore out the 396/375HP 4-bolt main blocks
to STD Bore 427cid ...kept bugging me to swap engines, so we swapped , i got money + his race 350cid,
later on he broke a Connecting Rod Dragracing it , destroyed my old 396.

i got tired of the 350 in my Chevelle , ordered a complete brand new 396/375HP engine
from Dickie Harrell in Kansas ... ran that 396/375 a few more years , then traded it in on another Car
but before i traded it in, i put the SSCamaros 350cid in it + left the 5.14 rear gears in it

over the next years , i sold off most 396/375 parts
kept the Crank for a long time , and now i only have the 4-Bolt main 396/375HP Block left sitting in my Shop
it has absolutely no wear or top ring ridge in Bores , its a cherry hardly used 4-Bolt Block w/valve notches in top of Bores.

Started racing a 1970 Olds W30 w/another Friend back then , Sponsored by Ray Chevrolet/Olds Car Dealership
provided a new 1970 Chevy Car Hauler Black w/White Interior , which also had a 396cid or 402cid BBC engine :)

Image

Image
Hmmm, Larry think that C-30 ramp truck is a '72... :D
Enjoyed this thread!
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Re: 461X SBC Heads and other Rare SBC Heads

Post by lowriderglen » Mon Apr 02, 2018 8:08 pm

I just purchased an unmolested pair of bare castings last week. Haven't seen any of these in many years.

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Re: 461X SBC Heads and other Rare SBC Heads

Post by maxracesoftware » Tue Apr 03, 2018 1:38 am

by SupStk » Mon Apr 02, 2018 6:58 pm
Hmmm, Larry think that C-30 ramp truck is a '72... :D
Enjoyed this thread!

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its possible it could be 1972 ??
i thought it was a 1970 or 1971 ? .... its only been 46-48 years ago, memory not 100.0% :D
it wasn't my Truck , it was between Doug and Ray Chevrolet/Olds Dealership
but i had "Free Use" of it for about 3+ years , i kept at my Shop , ran Parts and daily use , etc
Doug had the name of my Shop put on the Tool box "Performance Automotive"
later changed it to Meaux Automotive , then 1975 to Meaux Racing Heads when i started Porting Heads

here's a rear Pic of the Truck in Jan 1973 the most snow i've seen here
might help you narrow down the year with rear view ?
Image

by pamotorman » Sat Mar 31, 2018 9:06 pm
should not there also be a X cast on the intake runner down inside the D shaped water passage??
i looked in the Large CCvolume #461X Head , it has a "X" in the "D" shaped water passage only on the #61 end Left-side
nothing in the right-side D passage

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

here's NHRA Port Volume CC's for various castings ,as of Aug 17, 1999 ....need to go to NHRA site for more current Data
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Re: 461X SBC Heads and other Rare SBC Heads

Post by SupStk » Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:01 am

Hardly any difference between those years. The truck pictured has the 71-72 grille. 72s had the rear view mirror glued to the windshield and arm rests were molded into the door panels.
My favorite body style of any truck made. Had about a dozen of them over the years. Currently have a '71 K-10.
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Re: 461X SBC Heads and other Rare SBC Heads

Post by tenxal » Tue Apr 03, 2018 9:29 am

From current NHRA specs where 461X heads are recognized for the combinations (generally, '64-66 High perf. 327's)

Cylinder Heads: Casting No. Intake Volume Exhaust Volume
3782461 165.0cc 65.0cc
3782461X 172.0cc 64.0cc

I have seen several sets of 1.94-1.50 461X heads over the years.

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