461X SBC Heads and other Rare SBC Heads

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pamotorman
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Re: 461X SBC Heads and other Rare SBC Heads

Post by pamotorman » Sun Apr 08, 2018 8:50 am

back in the early days chevy used a "O" ring on the valve stem under the keys and a inverted tin cup between the spring retainer and the spring to keep excess oil of off the valve stem so the bosses were not machined to save time and $$$$

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Re: 461X SBC Heads and other Rare SBC Heads

Post by bill jones » Sun Apr 08, 2018 9:49 am

---in about 1977 I bought a set of aluminum SBC heads from Fred Joehnck---that were supposed to be copies of the GM 292 turbo castings.

---seems like they might have been built by or for a company called Speedmaster--maybe actually have came from Brodix.

---Brodix might have bought the rights to the heads from Speedmaster.

---they were referred to as -9's by Brodix---that reference was for the 179CC intake port.

---this particular set of heads was the very first heads to be used on a sprint car here in the Salt Lake City Utah area in that era.

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Re: 461X SBC Heads and other Rare SBC Heads

Post by maxracesoftware » Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:44 pm

bill jones wrote:
Sun Apr 08, 2018 9:49 am
---in about 1977 I bought a set of aluminum SBC heads from Fred Joehnck---that were supposed to be copies of the GM 292 turbo castings.

---seems like they might have been built by or for a company called Speedmaster--maybe actually have came from Brodix.

---Brodix might have bought the rights to the heads from Speedmaster.

---they were referred to as -9's by Brodix---that reference was for the 179CC intake port.

---this particular set of heads was the very first heads to be used on a sprint car here in the Salt Lake City Utah area in that era.
---they were referred to as -9's by Brodix---that reference was for the 179CC intake port.
Bill,
there was -8 version too ...i use to know the corresponding CC Volumes
so i guess with that numbering system , they might have had -1's thru to -7's ??
i never saw anything less than the dash -8's Brodix SBC Heads

i still have a sectioned 10X that Brodix sent me to play with ... , plus an Intake Port mold they sent along with it :)
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Re: 461X SBC Heads and other Rare SBC Heads

Post by bill jones » Sun Apr 08, 2018 6:33 pm

---as far as I know the -8 was a 198CC intake port--and the -10 was 210cc.

---it took a full year to get our local racing association to get to where they'd add "aluminum" heads into the rule book---so this one set of -9's was the only aluminum heads allowed to run the one year.
---this -9 set looked exactly like the 292 turbo heads.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
---by 1980 we had aluminum heads on all the sprint cars only---but the rules also got changed to where the limited modifeds had to run cast iron production castings.

---the previous rule was something to the effect of "any american or canadian passenger car or truck head".
-------------------------------------------------------------------
---about 1980 we had also got a deal with JV Brotherton at Brodix--and also started using their aluminum heads on drag cars and some late model oval track engines.

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Re: 461X SBC Heads and other Rare SBC Heads

Post by P R S » Sun Apr 08, 2018 7:13 pm

I looked at 5 of my x castings,and all had the fin but I think only 3 had x stamped in the machined pad that has that fin,and all had " fat" guide bosses on both intake and exhaust.i think I have 3 or 4 more to look at but have to dig them out I'll try to get some pictures too.
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Re: 461X SBC Heads and other Rare SBC Heads

Post by pdq67 » Sun Apr 08, 2018 8:54 pm

pamotorman wrote:
Sun Apr 01, 2018 9:09 pm
the only 396 that could be bored safely to 4.250 was the original 65 corvette 396 blocks. that was because they were cast up for a 4.250 bore but GM big shots said no engines over 400 cu in so they were made 396 with a smaller bore
I have heard that if an old style wooden pencil won't go between the cylinders through the freeze plugs, a 396 can be bored to a 427. I figure the same with the 402, but would sonic check before boring that big.

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Re: 461X SBC Heads and other Rare SBC Heads

Post by pdq67 » Sun Apr 08, 2018 9:10 pm

Krooser wrote:
Thu Apr 05, 2018 7:48 am
Don't mean to hijack this but a local guy posted a for sale ad on a FB racing page...

'67 327.... All stock. Matching date codes. Solid lifter cam, 461 heads iirc, correct pistons, Tonawanda built. Not sure but it seems to be either a 365 or 375 HP motor.

Pdq is likely having a coronary right now.
This is why I have gathered up parts for a 4.155" b x 3.00" s = 325" engine because I dearly love to wind them up like I did my old junk301! He, He!!

If I don't die first..

Oh, and btw, I have a virgin pair of big valve -461's that I installed screw-in studs and then pinned. Chambers and all ports are untouched. I just remembered that I knurled the guides back then, not knowing any better. They were on my 406 for a while!

I still have my OEM 350SS -462 medium valve heads but they are pretty well rusted plus one is cracked.

I don't know how many other heads I have in my pile.

I do have a pair of '56, 265" -306 heads and a pair of 305HO, 601's with 1.84"/1.50" valves too.

The old -306's cc'd at 118 and 120 intake ports so are little bitty buggers!! I got them just for ---. they are, "sparkplug trough", heads!

The -601's cc'd at 160 intake port size so are GOOD heads no matter what anybody says!! They are a double-quench flat type head like the -461's.

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Re: 461X SBC Heads and other Rare SBC Heads

Post by pdq67 » Sun Apr 08, 2018 9:15 pm

GOSFAST wrote:
Fri Apr 06, 2018 7:07 pm
novadude wrote:
Fri Apr 06, 2018 6:45 pm
Was there any rhyme or reason for which cars got "x" heads and which got standard 461s? Was it just luck of the draw, or were X heads reserved for certain applications?

You mentioned 487 heads. While we are talking open chambers, were there any unique 441s? I know these are popular in stock and super stock on the 255hp combinations.
As far as I can recall all the 461's cast up to and including the '63 model year were the "X" heads, the '64 model year dropped the "X's".

We have a bunch of experience with those "X" heads, I can tell you many were "destroyed" (on purpose) and "fixed" by an old friend, Al Mathon Sr., he was a master at welding cast iron material!

I believe Larry (up here) knew him really well. Almost every single "X" head he "fixed" ended up setting an NHRA record back in the day!! There was no porting allowed but you could "fix" them when necessary??

(Add) I have few "virgin" sets on the shelf here still, never been machined anywhere! They were all 1.940"/1.500" valves.

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. Al made the infamous Chevy V-16 by welding 2 blocks together in tandem! Here's a shot, it ended up in street rod, was originally destined for "marine" use by Al. He was without a doubt the best cast-iron welder on this planet in his time!
Way cool Gary, thanks for sharing!

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Re: 461X SBC Heads and other Rare SBC Heads

Post by pdq67 » Sun Apr 08, 2018 9:21 pm

maxracesoftware wrote:
Sat Apr 07, 2018 1:11 am
Image
Back years ago while I was with AP Green Refractories, Mexico, MO I made a sales call with the local APG Salesman up at GM's Pontiac/Buick(?) Foundry.

I saw skids of completed SBC heads ready to be dumped into the Furnace to be melted down because for some unknown reason, they were scrap!

It made me sick thinking about it!!

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Re: 461X SBC Heads and other Rare SBC Heads

Post by pdq67 » Sun Apr 08, 2018 9:24 pm

P R S wrote:
Sat Apr 07, 2018 10:05 pm
I too have seen the "292 turbo" aluminum copy.They are on one of my customers engines but he got them with a car they bought.They resembled older Brodix castings ,I will see them again come freshen up time,but will be a few months.On the 461X castings,I haven't been out to look at all of mine since this thread started ,but i know the guide bosses on a couple I remember were the big fat ones on all valves not just the exhaust like the pictures.ive seen some late 1960 cast dates and seems like at one time,NHRA spec sheets showed them on 315 hp 283 Fi engines in Corvette in eithe '60 or '61.
I have to ask!!

Where was, "Brownfield", heads here??

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Re: 461X SBC Heads and other Rare SBC Heads

Post by autogear » Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:39 pm

PDQ:
Brownfield heads were the predecessor of AFR if my memory is correct. VERY good heads in their day. My old man could never afford them, so we had Canfields; which were also very good back then.

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Re: 461X SBC Heads and other Rare SBC Heads

Post by fdicrasto » Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:54 pm

My memories of Brownfield heads came from mid 1970's?? Owned an early set and I thought Warren Brownfield had sold his AFR interest to Ken Sperling to concentrate on the aluminum head manufacturing. I may be completely wrong on that.The sbc set I owned had the valve locations moved which required a special stud girdle and some pushrod clearance mods. Never really found out how much potential they had and stayed with the iron "turbo"heads instead. Phil D.

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Re: 461X SBC Heads and other Rare SBC Heads

Post by levisnteeshirt » Sat Apr 14, 2018 11:37 am

I had a set , found a 327 in a field and took them off when I was 15 ,, and it was cast in the 461x ,, not an x located somewhere else ,, the x was cast right beside the 1 ,, 461X , not stamped somewhere ,, plain as day , in the top of the head and under the bottom ,, 461X

I took them to a shop to get them checked , this shop did super stock work at the time ,, he told me they were cracked ,, but what would I sell them for ,, I have my doubts , but when your 16 in 1979 and no access to info like there is today ,, I sold them to him for 50 bucks

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