California gasoline?

[olescarb]

the following link is to a fuel map from 2006 that shows the various fuel blends that were in place then, it has most likely got worse since then. http://econbrowser.com/wp-content/uploa ... _mobil.jpg


I wrote an article for The Shop magazine (a free online magazine) on the subject of modern reformulated gasoline vs a vintage carburetor equipped vehicle about the changes in gasoline formulation since the 1970s with help and input from gasoline engineers at Chevron, Shell, Rockett Brand (formally Union oil race fuel) and ERC race gas. a link to the first in the series is at http://read.uberflip.com/i/820425-june-17/37? but you may need to register to access it. There are also article to follow on the tuning changes that are often needed to allow a vintage engine to run its best with these new politically correct blends of gasoline.


Henry @ oles carb

[David Redszus]

To which part of Kalifornia do we refer? The Democrap Republic of Kali has several different gasolines depending on location.

Could you just stick to the chemistry please, and keep the politics to the political thread? Thanks...

I know this will be hard for all the codgers here who seem to lack self restraint, but it is possible to talk about a topic without injecting (pun fully intended) politics into it.

Sorry for you if my comment has offended you; actually I'm really not sorry at all.
When the science of fuel chemistry has been politicized by one state it should be publicized.

And I certainly don't need any scolding from you. Post some information of value.

[David Redszus]

The state of California has four fuel zones mandated by the EPA.: North coast, South coast, Southeast, and Interior.There are several parameters that must be met which are adjusted monthly, and geographically. They are:

Vapor pressure: 5 blends, range 9-15 psi
Min distillation point: 6 blends, range 158-122F deg
Max distillation point: 1 blend, 437F deg
Drive index: 5 blends, range 1250-1200F deg
vapor lock: 5 blends, 140-105F deg
Anti-Knock req: 2 blends, range -0.5 to -1.0 Index

In addition there are local county wide requirements within a zone based on non-attainment of emission standards.

Needless to say, at any time and place, it might be a wild guess as to which fuel is presented. The EPA standards apply to the refineries, not at the pump.

A wide range of fuels can be constructed within the above requirements. But the good news is that changes in octane are minimal and usually directed toward higher elevations.

[Krooser]

I hear many vintage "performance"bike riders bitching about California gasoline.... Mostly detonation problems blamed on the blend of California 91 octane 10 percent ethanol..Do you car guys have the same complaints about Ca, fuel?...Does anyone know what goes in E10 California fuel that makes if supposedly different than the E10 of the same octane used in other states?

To which part of Kalifornia do we refer? The Democrap Republic of Kali has several different gasolines depending on location.

28 blends Nationwide or close...

[Truckedup]

Ok, the last few posts are informative....So if the guys in California,it's the San Francisco area, are having detonation issues on 91 octane E10....Then ship their bike to me in Western NY state where fuel is not subject to "special" conditions...And fill up with 91 E10 here...If the weather conditions are similar, they should expect the same detonation problem as in California ? I see the evaporation values are higher in California,that could be a problem...
For the record, I do understand detonation and the factors that affect it...Running 9-1 compression vintage Hemi head bike engine on 91 octane is dicey.. But I can do it here so long as the tune up and riding style are ok.. Using tight quench, what little there is, and not lugging the engine..But it obviously better to use 93 E10 ..but it's not available in California ?

[Roundybout]

I remember reading up on this when I lived in MA at the time they were adopting CA emission standards. The number of fuel blends for different metropolitan areas is ridiculous. They all reduce emissions though. VOC's and NOx in particular. Manufactuers must have a field day making sure vehicles will run on this stuff everywhere. We do have a local station that sells ethanol free. It's decidedly more pungent. Full of MTBE and other stuff a lot of states don't allow anymore.

[mekilljoydammit]

Anecdotes aren't data but here's an anecdote.

Hi, you must be new here.

I think most general tunes have to be safe. I know this time of the year, driving from the NE and into the South, your mpg will change at some point after a fill up (winter blend vs. a warmer weather blend).

I think there would be more variation between brands than state-to-state. The feedstock is pretty much the same in a given region, but the gas retailers have their own blends of additives they have added in. I'm told some of it happens at the truck when they fill them up, but you know, anecdotes.

Well, I can try to qualify how reliable the data is?

The point on general tunes having to be safe is really the genesis for it. The common split is "93 octane" "91 octane" "Arizona / California / Nevada 91 octane" for what is and isn't a safe tune, in decreasing order of power. Living in a state where 93 is the usual pump premium and I do my own tuning, I haven't worried about it.

[JoePorting]

My daily driver stock car runs a lot better on Nevada gas then CA gas, and it's a dollar cheaper. I'd think a better running engine would produce less smog. With CA gas, it feels like the egr valve is open half the time.

[tjs44]

I love reading about the guys back east that have better gas and mine shaft air talking about how much CR you can run with 91 gas and iron heads.Get claims of 11-1 and such.I would not want to be a engine builder out here with this crap!Tom

[hoffman900]

I love reading about the guys back east that have better gas and mine shaft air talking about how much CR you can run with 91 gas and iron heads.Get claims of 11-1 and such.I would not want to be a engine builder out here with this crap!Tom

California dynos are happier, so it more than balances out.

[Kevin Johnson]

If you are running sodium cooled exhaust valves and have an OEM computer that tries to generate maximum performance nation-wide, I think you would be well advised to check your exhaust valve clearances periodically. Back in the mid 2000's I do not think the modeling was powerful enough to predict supercooling of the valves on startup which combined with particular blends of gas then (my opinion) led to abrasive deposits opening up clearances. Perversely, the more the owner babied a car the more likely this was to transpire.

Your anecdotes may vary.

[pcnsd]

I live in California, I ride an oldish street bike (1979) with a welded quench chamber and about 10.2:1 SCR. A few things I do. 1. Tune for local conditions. 2. If it starts to ping, downshift. 3. In the summer, a cup of 100 octane street race fuel mixed into the tank after fill-up solves almost all issues.

[tjs44]

Are you saying our dynos are "librial" and not "conservative"That would be a big surprise!Tom

[JCR]

Here is a map from 2015
https://www.afpm.org/uploadedFiles/Cont ... Map(1).pdf

This is 2018
http://www.api.org/~/media/Files/Policy ... ts-Map.pdf

I think this is the first year for B.K. Larson. All the previous ones I had downloaded over the years were by K.W. Gardner.

[sanfordandson]

I hear many vintage "performance"bike riders bitching about California gasoline.... Mostly detonation problems blamed on the blend of California 91 octane 10 percent ethanol..Do you car guys have the same complaints about Ca, fuel?...Does anyone know what goes in E10 California fuel that makes if supposedly different than the E10 of the same octane used in other states?

To which part of Kalifornia do we refer? The Democrap Republic of Kali has several different gasolines depending on location.

Could you just stick to the chemistry please, and keep the politics to the political thread? Thanks...

I know this will be hard for all the codgers here who seem to lack self restraint, but it is possible to talk about a topic without injecting (pun fully intended) politics into it.

Like this...

"California is 800 miles north to south with elevation from sea level to 14,500'. There are several fuel blends used throughout the state due to variation in climate. Where are these riders located?"

Well said Mr Hoffman