sintered bronze main bearings vs alum steel
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sintered bronze main bearings vs alum steel
I recently rebuilt an engine for a customer that supplied me with bearings etc.
I checked clearances and all was fine but later went to order another set for a similar build and they are not listed for that particular car but for a similar diesel model.
The difference is one bearing is steel backed sintered bronze, the other steel backed aluminium that's lead free.
What are the pro's and cons of each. Would they interchange ?
What's best for high rpm ?
I checked clearances and all was fine but later went to order another set for a similar build and they are not listed for that particular car but for a similar diesel model.
The difference is one bearing is steel backed sintered bronze, the other steel backed aluminium that's lead free.
What are the pro's and cons of each. Would they interchange ?
What's best for high rpm ?
Re: sintered bronze main bearings vs alum steel
I have never heard of a steel backed sintered bronze main bearing. What was the application and the manufacture
Of the bearing??
Of the bearing??
Re: sintered bronze main bearings vs alum steel
In the early 1920's , Allison Engineering ( they later made the V12 aircraft engine) developed a process to put a bronze overlay on a steel shell. This was first the "modern bearing" just like used now with different metals on a steel shell...
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Re: sintered bronze main bearings vs alum steel
Are you sure it was actually bronze and not just that copper/bronze look that some bearings have?
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Re: sintered bronze main bearings vs alum steel
I may have it all wrong, but it would seem to me that a bronze surfaced bearing could handle much greater pressures created in a diesel motor than a softer bearing.
Although the softer bearing layer does have the advantage of more easily 'embedding' and trapping any small hard particle that may be carried in the oil.
Many diesels do have much better oil filtering than our cheap automotive filters. Old Macks had a centrifugal filter that I would have liked to have seen used more. They were a bitch to clean, but they did their job.
Although the softer bearing layer does have the advantage of more easily 'embedding' and trapping any small hard particle that may be carried in the oil.
Many diesels do have much better oil filtering than our cheap automotive filters. Old Macks had a centrifugal filter that I would have liked to have seen used more. They were a bitch to clean, but they did their job.
Re: sintered bronze main bearings vs alum steel
Well the interesting thing is they also looked like they have an aluminum top layer cause I couldn't tell the difference in appearance ,yet the Glyco bearing catalog lists them as sintered bronze over steel.
Re: sintered bronze main bearings vs alum steel
Glyco is very rare in the USA, so I do not think I have ever seen one.
Then again, in appearance, it may be identical to a cast bronze (or copper/lead) steel backed bearing.....so....how would I know if I ever did? LOL
Sintered metal is 10-20% porous, as a result...in MOST cases, it cannot be as strong and fatigue resistant as a solid cast material. So I would SUSPECT it would be unlikely to be used in a connecting rod, and probably not a main bearing either.
It is easy to machine, so may be very good for camshaft bearings that are machined after installation, and balance shaft bearings, gear train bearings.
If glyco has made some kind of proprietery process that makes a sintered bearing AS STRONG as a cast bronze bearing, I haven't heard of it. I would be suspicious of it's low popularity.
Steel shell aluminum bearings are used in 70% of all engines that currently exist, so, there should be no need to explain.
Then again, in appearance, it may be identical to a cast bronze (or copper/lead) steel backed bearing.....so....how would I know if I ever did? LOL
Sintered metal is 10-20% porous, as a result...in MOST cases, it cannot be as strong and fatigue resistant as a solid cast material. So I would SUSPECT it would be unlikely to be used in a connecting rod, and probably not a main bearing either.
It is easy to machine, so may be very good for camshaft bearings that are machined after installation, and balance shaft bearings, gear train bearings.
If glyco has made some kind of proprietery process that makes a sintered bearing AS STRONG as a cast bronze bearing, I haven't heard of it. I would be suspicious of it's low popularity.
Steel shell aluminum bearings are used in 70% of all engines that currently exist, so, there should be no need to explain.
Re: sintered bronze main bearings vs alum steel
Only slightly OT, but the American LaFrance V12 we are building was designed by Auburn/Lycoming in the late '20s-early '30s and at that time had poured babbit main bearings. When ALF redesigned it for insert mains, they left the main journals the same large diameter and had the main bearings made up with 1/4" thick bronze shells with babbit overlay. I'll post a photo.
Jack Vines
Studebaker-Packard V8 Limited
Obsolete Engineering
Studebaker-Packard V8 Limited
Obsolete Engineering
Re: sintered bronze main bearings vs alum steel
Jack, that's interesting about bronze shells with babbit....The Allison Engineering story I mentioned above came from Allison being hired by the Army Air Force to extend the overhaul life of the WW1 Liberty V12 aircraft engine still in use. The rod and main bearings were only good for about 50 hours...They were babbit over bronze as was common back then...Allison's bronze over steel increased TBO to around 400 hours even when power was increased about 25%...The bronze over steel then evolved into the tri metal...PackardV8 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 19, 2018 11:29 am Only slightly OT, but the American LaFrance V12 we are building was designed by Auburn/Lycoming in the late '20s-early '30s and at that time had poured babbit main bearings. When ALF redesigned it for insert mains, they left the main journals the same large diameter and had the main bearings made up with 1/4" thick bronze shells with babbit overlay. I'll post a photo.
Motorcycle land speed racing... wearing animal hides and clinging to vibrating oily machines propelled by fire
Re: sintered bronze main bearings vs alum steel
We have a bunch of guys that have jd420, 430 and 440 crawler machines..all of which use the same main bearings for the crankshaft...We are having issues with finding main bearings for these machines..appears that currently the rod bearings are available in the various sizes. These were basically made in the 50s 60s.
You mention having machined bearings for an old tractor from aluminum bar stock which apparently served the purpose...these machines probably top out at 2000rpm...with proper info would the aluminum bar stock be suitable? and affordable? Cost estimate to make a set or a run of different sizes needed?
Thank You
Dtoots1
send a pm and will get cell # to you
You mention having machined bearings for an old tractor from aluminum bar stock which apparently served the purpose...these machines probably top out at 2000rpm...with proper info would the aluminum bar stock be suitable? and affordable? Cost estimate to make a set or a run of different sizes needed?
Thank You
Dtoots1
send a pm and will get cell # to you
Re: sintered bronze main bearings vs alum steel
FWIW, we deal in weird shite all the time. The pro tip is to get really deep into all the on-line and hard copy bearing dimension listings. Thus far, we've been able to find a "close enough" bearing, sometimes machining the bore to fit the OD of a bearing with the correct ID.
On rod bearings, if the locating tangs are not in the right place, just grind them off the bearings and size the ID for the specified crush.
On rod bearings, if the locating tangs are not in the right place, just grind them off the bearings and size the ID for the specified crush.
Jack Vines
Studebaker-Packard V8 Limited
Obsolete Engineering
Studebaker-Packard V8 Limited
Obsolete Engineering
Re: sintered bronze main bearings vs alum steel
Might It be a good idea to plate a layer of tin on the homemade bearings ?? I recall the good old school Delco Moraine bearings had a 'Tin overlay for conformability' and it was disappointing when they became no longer available.
Re: sintered bronze main bearings vs alum steel
Cosworth's 20,000 rpm CA F1 V8 used bronze main bearings, apparently machined from solid.
Re: sintered bronze main bearings vs alum steel
Question comes down to..for instance if you were to buy .010 sheet...alum..brass..bronze and form your own bearings by pressing with the crankshaft to form..with the proper lube holes and locking clip....would that not be what is needed and work?
next question is....how hardened should that material be? and which material?
next question is....how hardened should that material be? and which material?