Arao heads

General engine tech -- Drag Racing to Circle Track

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cuisinartvette
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Arao heads

Post by cuisinartvette » Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:07 am

What happened to them, used to live down the st from his shop when they would run their camaro down lassen late at night testing

Did anyone pick up the patent and do anything with them?

VHS in northridge I think is doing something similar with a BBC head?

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Re: Arao heads

Post by amc fan » Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:30 am

Do a search on Yellow Bullet Forum!

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Re: Arao heads

Post by Newold1 » Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:11 am

I am sorry to rant a bit here but I and most others are so done with trying to fit exotic 32 valve heads on the good old SBC or BBC. They look cool in their nearly one off pictures on rods and what not but they have no real place in general performance aftermarket in today's uses or markets.

Why, because they are so fu*k*ng expensive, not effective and difficult to implement on these base engines that they make NO SENSE!

The horsepower and rpm levels achieved on these engine types with today's current aftermarket heads, valve train and induction systems makes it useless, foolish and misleading to think that the difficulty and huge expense of these parts and systems can create any net benefit in power or performance other than the " wow , cool factor!"

If you have a SBC or BBC that needs a lot more power or rpm, just study, research and use what's already available for these platforms. Unless you have a huge deep pocket and more time than experience then quit dreaming and contemplating these offerings or ideas and GET YOURSELF REAL!! :x
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Re: Arao heads

Post by 427dart » Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:15 am

Why does Ford still stick with 32V heads on their hot 500+ HP 5.0 and 5.2 engines?

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Re: Arao heads

Post by Newold1 » Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:25 am

Because those were clean sheet engineered and built engines for the OEM market and to be used in large numbers. Even they are pricey!

Why do the current easily made push rod OHV LSX engines still kick the Fords 5.0, 5.2L butts all day long!

GM will switch all its engines over to DOHC shortly, but again they are new clean sheet designs and will be used in huge OEM numbers, not in aftermarket yet.

Next thing someone will tell me is someone is going to start offering twin overhead cam aftermarket heads for the Ford flathead and Studebaker V-8's.

Like I usually say if you believe that's a viable project, I've got some beach front property just outside Phoenix I would like to offer you ! :lol:
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Re: Arao heads

Post by cuisinartvette » Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:49 am

Jeez take a chill pill newold just asking. I like stuff thats different who said hot rodding is practical?

I heard the guy got put away and had some unhappy customers....just curious if anyone picked it up and did something with it.

Last time I stopped by his shop it looked like he was trying to have them CNC ported (their hand porting looked horrible sorry lol)
not sure I like the long pushrod thing but after having an LT5 the 32 valve thing makes sense. The stock cams on those were puny but still ran 108-110mph in a 3400 lb car not bad.
They flat out work without a lot of cam timing
His test Camaro at one time didnt have much cam in it but hauled azz, used to make passes in front of my place late at night. Lots of rpm

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Re: Arao heads

Post by Ratu » Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:58 am

Story I heard was that the business practices of the people advertising, manufacturing and supplying those cylinder heads were unsatisfactory. Several customers were said to be highly disappointed, not so much with the product, but rather with the inability to get what they purchased even after paying considerable sums of money. Now whether that is correct or not I do not know. The reputation is terrible, as can be seen in various forums. Not many people have nice things to say. I imagine that people stayed away as a result. Whatever the case, it is doubtful many sets have been made. They would have to be very rare.

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Re: Arao heads

Post by JoePorting » Mon Mar 05, 2018 12:21 pm

His shop has been shut down for years. I think it's a body shop now. iMO, he tried to do too much all at once and ended up not being able to do anything. If he stuck with the SBC head and tried to improve it with a CNC version, I think he would have done okay. But he tried to come out with a head for every motor and just ran out of time and money.
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Re: Arao heads

Post by cuisinartvette » Mon Mar 05, 2018 1:19 pm

Hmm...these two connected?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvatTl9rfyQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbOq1O5y-Y0


not really interested in all that, moreso if anyones doing something similar today. last time I talked to Valley Head svc I was told a big block chevy 32v or DOHC project was in the works

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Re: Arao heads

Post by Newold1 » Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:50 pm

Sorry Crusinartvette, was not directing that rant against you just sort of frustrated when I see individuals and companies in the aftermarket make half hearted and sometimes futile attempts to develop great new aftermarket products for the SBC and the BBC's and miss the mark so badly in my opinion.

They either come out with some great heads and manifolds especially and they lean the product so strongly strictly for the limited top end racing market or they go for under performing product for the street/strip market that the products seem either to be way to expensive for average market penetration on the higher achieving product. Like BBC cylinder heads at $6K-$8K range that require overly expensive intake and fuel delivery systems, special valve train and even valve covers! Sure if you've got the $15K to $20K disposable income to put an awesome top end on your BBC or SBC you can really make awesome power with these products, but the overall aftermarket users get left out of the picture. Other individuals or companies come out with the same old simple kinda works products that most can afford but the performance potential and effort it takes to incorporate onto an existing SBC, BBC
engine makes it almost a draw for "bucks versus bang" lack luster results.

Old mechanical professor of mine when I was in college engineering had a great saying. "Never design, develop or make a part or product more expensive or complicated than it needs to do a good job at what you are asking it to do!" Seems as though some of these after market developers could study this message and stop going out there in the fringe twilight zone of aftermarket performance part development universe!

Some of those it's new but not that great parts developers seem to have forgotten the "Good" part of this quote and instead seem to be driven by make it real cheap and then sell if for more than its worth and make a ton of profit without giving the industry any thing special.

Let's take the SBC or BBC for an example of what someone (a smart someone) could do to really hit the mark.
Design a really good as cast head that incorporates the higher symemtrical port configurations, flatter valve angles and small rotated combustion chambers that will allow a range of let's say 10.0 to 15.0 compression ratios with anything from a dished to small dome and flat top pistons. These heads could be designed and equipped to handle anything from small conical or beehive spring packages to full dual heavy spring packages with lifts up to .900".
These heads could incorporate simple heavy duty rocker studs for simple roller rockers and at the same time have bases that are designed to take simple shaft rocker setups, two types fit all. With a SBC valve size range of between 2.05 to 2.25 on intake and 1.60 to 1.70" exhaust. On the BBC they could use a 2.25" to 2.40" intake valve sizes and a 1.80"-1.90" exhaust valve sizes.

With the high symmetrical ports a simple single low rise and high rise spread runner spider cast manifolds for up to 4500 carb or throttle body base and a nice symmetrical port cast tunnel ram and a large plenum single large throttle body manifold for EFI uses they would have a complete product package that would deliver 90-95% of what the aftermarket needs for these two huge engine platforms.

If they would take a great performing designs, have the Chinese cast them right with initial inexpensive drilling and decking work like is available now from current import castings and then do the final seat, guide and valve fitment here in the US and do final QC and assembly with decent reasonably priced valve train parts and assembly I think a company could hit a $2000-$2200 per pair on the SBC heads and $2400-$2600 per pair on the BBC for the fully assembled awesome performing ready to run head packages! As for intakes I think they could hit the $450-$550 range for the single cast intakes, $1000 for the cast two piece tunnel ram and about $1500 on the EFI cast base and plenum manifolds.

Any of these heads could also have CNC programs for running top of the ranges on CFM's more expensive valve types and speical retainer and spring packages.

In any event this would put the ranges of 600-100 HP on the SBC and BBC lower cost standard and aftermarket blocks for an awesome top end in the $2500 - $3000 ranges which would be eaten up by the aftermarket! The only way most are going to get to these performance levels now is to go to the very high end of the head and manifold offerings now at costs that are over double these numbers.

I hope someone or some company wakes up here and realizes what a decent business sense move this could be. It's already being done everyday in the LSX engine market with incredible results! Why does this current aftermarket keep such a wide divide between what two types of products are avaialble for these two huge engine platforms! One so expensive only a small few can go there and one moving to be so cheap that almost all others can afford it but can't get the great results they should have available at a reasonable cost! Hell it and the reasoning escapes me! :roll: JMHO
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Re: Arao heads

Post by cuisinartvette » Mon Mar 05, 2018 3:00 pm

no sweat newold....I hear what youre saying. Dig innovation sad he went about it the wrong way

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Re: Arao heads

Post by pdq67 » Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:39 pm

Might look into what Pete Aardema has done in the past and I think he still is.

I like his SOHC SBC conversions.

As well as a modern updated version of the SOHC Mail Jeep Tornado engine

But, BTTT, I think that one big problem is that both the SB and the BB use 5 head bolts so they aren't 4 and in a square out of the way pattern. This makes putting different heads on our Chevy V-8 engines difficult if not mistaken.

But one good thing about the Chevy engine head-bolt patterns, they seem to work DAMNED GOOD!!

pdq67

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Re: Arao heads

Post by peejay » Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:17 pm

Newold1 wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:25 am
Because those were clean sheet engineered and built engines for the OEM market and to be used in large numbers. Even they are pricey!

Why do the current easily made push rod OHV LSX engines still kick the Fords 5.0, 5.2L butts all day long!
The engines GM use to kick the 5.2l's butt have a lot more displacement... AND a supercharger. And they don't nearly have the same auditory effect!

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Re: Arao heads

Post by peejay » Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:21 pm

pdq67 wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:39 pm
But, BTTT, I think that one big problem is that both the SB and the BB use 5 head bolts so they aren't 4 and in a square out of the way pattern. This makes putting different heads on our Chevy V-8 engines difficult if not mistaken.
And if you are looking at OHC engines, having the head bolt up front and center on the intake side eliminates one of the big benefits of going away from pushrods... No pushrod pinch!

I still love what Chevy did for their clean sheet Midget engine. They realized, hey, let's put the camshaft on the exhaust side of the engine! Get the cam lower to the ground and make room for big intake ports shaped however we want.
But one good thing about the Chevy engine head-bolt patterns, they seem to work DAMNED GOOD!!
...at warping the bores when you torque the heads down :lol:

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Re: Arao heads

Post by pdq67 » Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:12 am

peejay wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:21 pm
pdq67 wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:39 pm
But, BTTT, I think that one big problem is that both the SB and the BB use 5 head bolts so they aren't 4 and in a square out of the way pattern. This makes putting different heads on our Chevy V-8 engines difficult if not mistaken.
And if you are looking at OHC engines, having the head bolt up front and center on the intake side eliminates one of the big benefits of going away from pushrods... No pushrod pinch!

I still love what Chevy did for their clean sheet Midget engine. They realized, hey, let's put the camshaft on the exhaust side of the engine! Get the cam lower to the ground and make room for big intake ports shaped however we want.
But one good thing about the Chevy engine head-bolt patterns, they seem to work DAMNED GOOD!!
...at warping the bores when you torque the heads down :lol:
Are you talking about the LS-engine family?

pdq67

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