holley 4160 type double pumper...why not?

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427dart
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holley 4160 type double pumper...why not?

Post by 427dart »

I remember when Holley brought out the 4224 center squirter 660 carb and then later on the typical double pumper with the large dual feed bowls.
But why didn't they bring about a mechanical secondary with double pumps for inline dual quad use for tight carb clearance setups like on the Ford dual quad intakes? I'm sure a hot super/stock 427 Fairlane could make good use of a pair of these over the vac. secondary type.
And on that topic what mods do the super/stock guys do to the factory type 4160 carbs to have quick and positive secondary opening on these 700 plus HP 427 engines? Do they just leave out the check ball and use the light white spring?
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Re: holley 4160 type double pumper...why not?

Post by pamotorman »

build a shooter like this and convert the linkage to 1 to1
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Re: holley 4160 type double pumper...why not?

Post by SupStk »

To answer your question on the dual quad Fords, I don't know. Pretty sure NHRA would frown on any mods on the carb to use the shooter tubes shown.
I ran a screw in the secondary quadrant to be sure the back barrels were all the way open. Later on tried leaving the ball out and using either the plain or purple spring. Both ways my car ran the same.
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pamotorman
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Re: holley 4160 type double pumper...why not?

Post by pamotorman »

when i built cheater 4 shooters i drilled the secondary shooter into the air cleaner stud boss.
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Re: holley 4160 type double pumper...why not?

Post by pamotorman »

holley copied the 4 shooter idea from me. i was looking for a larger capacity squirter pump when i got this letter back. i had been building AFBs 4 shooters for a while. a holley engineer saw my letter and set me the part number for the 50 cc pump from a reo truck 2 barrel carb so i could build holley carb 4 shooters
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Newold1
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Re: holley 4160 type double pumper...why not?

Post by Newold1 »

Very cool vintage letter! That's a keeper and demonstrates the difference in 1966 versus now on how companies in those days would go out of their way to advise and help performance racers and enthusiasts. My how the times have changed!
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Re: holley 4160 type double pumper...why not?

Post by Walter R. Malik »

427dart wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:46 pm I remember when Holley brought out the 4224 center squirter 660 carb and then later on the typical double pumper with the large dual feed bowls.
But why didn't they bring about a mechanical secondary with double pumps for inline dual quad use for tight carb clearance setups like on the Ford dual quad intakes? I'm sure a hot super/stock 427 Fairlane could make good use of a pair of these over the vac. secondary type.
And on that topic what mods do the super/stock guys do to the factory type 4160 carbs to have quick and positive secondary opening on these 700 plus HP 427 engines? Do they just leave out the check ball and use the light white spring?
To add a secondary pump to a 4160 in production it would probably require a completely different main body ... requiring the accelerator pump passageways to be in the body and not the metering block.
It could certainly be done without one.
I have done this transformation a couple times myself with 4160's , (later 3310's), which have a pump shooter casting boss on the secondary side. It takes filling the secondary power valve cavity and drilling the necessary passageways then making a short pump arm to also move the fulcrum of that arm; along with a few other small changes and additions

Not a quick and easy transformation however, with a completely new main body casting it would not be difficult at all.
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1972ho
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Re: holley 4160 type double pumper...why not?

Post by 1972ho »

Most of them have secondary’s lock down more than likely like most of the vs carburetor’s.
427dart
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Re: holley 4160 type double pumper...why not?

Post by 427dart »

Pamotorman...that letter is really great!

I have a few Holley carb main bodies and base plates lying around and may play with this idea.
If I recall I believe Ford had a lot to do with the first center squirter carbs where they built a couple in house for use on the 427 GT-40 program.
Also remember seeing that gear drive/secondary transfer nozzle you pictured in my old car mag ads.
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Re: holley 4160 type double pumper...why not?

Post by Casper393W »

Since 4224 center squirter carbs are so expensive I have thought about making a set myself! To me it would seem easier to do that instead of making a true double pumper... Since they only use 1 50cc rep pump
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Re: holley 4160 type double pumper...why not?

Post by 427dart »

Casper393W wrote: Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:26 pm Since 4224 center squirter carbs are so expensive I have thought about making a set myself! To me it would seem easier to do that instead of making a true double pumper... Since they only use 1 50cc rep pump
An issue I see for any part throttle use is of course you would want progressive secondary opening but with one center 4 way squirter you would have extra fuel puddle up on the closed secondary plates. This would cause very rich issues every time you worked the throttle.
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Re: holley 4160 type double pumper...why not?

Post by Casper393W »

I was thinking of making it a 1 to 1 linkage just as the 4224 were....and just use those carbs on the strip.. I'm not thinking of any street use with this setup. Heck the 4224's didn't even come with a power valve on the primaries.. I'm sure those carbs would be awful on the street as far as mileage goes
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Re: holley 4160 type double pumper...why not?

Post by pamotorman »

Casper393W wrote: Sat Feb 17, 2018 10:56 am I was thinking of making it a 1 to 1 linkage just as the 4224 were....and just use those carbs on the strip.. I'm not thinking of any street use with this setup. Heck the 4224's didn't even come with a power valve on the primaries.. I'm sure those carbs would be awful on the street as far as mileage goes
remember you need a check valve in the squirter circuit to prevent the fuel from flowing back out.
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Re: holley 4160 type double pumper...why not?

Post by roc »

pamotorman, that letter is as great as it gets! =D> We're very grateful to have you sharing your wisdom and experiences in this forum.
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