Engine Masters 350 vs 351w shootout

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levisnteeshirt
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Re: Engine Masters 350 vs 351w shootout

Post by levisnteeshirt » Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:07 pm

After their 383 test ,, using a smog vortec head on the sbc , and the old school head on the mopar ,, I don't give them much attention ,, if they would've used a bowtie 185 vortec head ,, it would've been a far better comparison ,,, the production vortec head exhaust port is tiny

MichaelThompson
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Re: Engine Masters 350 vs 351w shootout

Post by MichaelThompson » Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:09 pm

Hi I'm new here so take it easy on me. This is my first post post on Speed Talk and I'd like to share my viewpoint on this debate.

When I was a youngster growing up in western New York I used to tag along to the local paved short tracks with some friends.

There were various classes of course but in the "sportsman" classes the 302 Boss and 351 Cleveland were outlawed. Very simply because they held so much potential over the other engines. (read sbc)

I think they called them "exotic" heads in those days. Lol!

I guess they forgot to remember you could buy that stuff over the counter at any Ford dealer.

Now there was a place where the 351C was legal and that was in what they called "Modified Sportsman".

Yes in that class you were allowed to run one of these "exotic" Fords because this was a BBC class where everyone ran either a 427 or 454 based Chevy for the most part.

A couple guys ran the little Fords and they held their own but didn't dominate.

While I'm sure the gentleman from down under is convinced otherwise it seems the racing organizations in the northeast United States in the 1970's were fully convinced of the potential of the 302B & 351C.

Geoff2
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Re: Engine Masters 350 vs 351w shootout

Post by Geoff2 » Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:15 am

Michael,
You should read what I said more carefully....
Nowhere did I state that the Cleveland 302/351 did not have potential.

What I DID say [ backed up by some famous names, as quoted ] was that as a street engine they performed poorly because of the big ports & as a race engine they need extensive 're-engineering' to be reliable.

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Re: Engine Masters 350 vs 351w shootout

Post by numboltz » Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:52 am

"...Only one engine reached it's advertised number, & actually made 20 hp more! The 340 Mopar made 295 hp, 275 hp adv

Here are the others, all made less than advertised.
Olds 350 280, 325
Pontiac 350 255, 325
Chev 350 240, 300
Ford 351 210, 290..."

Based on extensive research, back in the day, that chart is exactly right.

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Re: Engine Masters 350 vs 351w shootout

Post by Truckedup » Sat Feb 17, 2018 7:58 am

numboltz wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:52 am
"...Only one engine reached it's advertised number, & actually made 20 hp more! The 340 Mopar made 295 hp, 275 hp adv

Here are the others, all made less than advertised.
Olds 350 280, 325
Pontiac 350 255, 325
Chev 350 240, 300
Ford 351 210, 290..."

Based on extensive research, back in the day, that chart is exactly right.
Back then I believe the Chevy 396/375, Mopar 440/390 and 428 Cobra jet among others were NHRA factored to higher than stock rated HP.....I assume the factored HP was after so called blueprinting...
Motorcycle land speed racing... wearing animal hides and clinging to vibrating oily machines propelled by fire

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Re: Engine Masters 350 vs 351w shootout

Post by MichaelThompson » Sat Feb 17, 2018 8:29 am

At the risk of going tit for tat and bring magazine articles in this, I will submit the article below.

From what I gather this article pitted small block engines from Chevrolet and Ford that were in the same basic category as they came from the factory. I think it is very interesting.

I admit I've never owned a Boss 302 or 351 but I have pals that did. They never seemed to complain about a lack of power. I do think you probably run a shorter gear with a Boss but as the article shows torque is pretty close among the contestants.

The Boss heads do take over after all the others check out for sure at least as far as factory castings go in that era.

As far as reengineering the entire engine to make it a race motor, well that depends on how you want to look at it.

If I'm building a race car engine circa 1970's for say Trans Am or maybe Grand National stock car racing I'm picking the Ford and bushing the lifter bores with glee.

I can't think of one engine design that started out as a passenger car engine that doesn't need careful attention to be a good race engine.

http://www.hotrod.com/articles/hrdp-100 ... -shootout/

Steve.k
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Re: Engine Masters 350 vs 351w shootout

Post by Steve.k » Sat Feb 17, 2018 10:17 am


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