SBC Dyno results, where to go from here

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Frankshaft
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Re: SBC Dyno results, where to go from here

Post by Frankshaft » Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:42 am

rustbucket79 wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:46 pm
Frankshaft wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:13 pm
rustbucket79 wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:10 pm
Car only has 1 3/4’s, bought them in 1992 to go on a 327 with iron Bowtie heads. :mrgreen: They also only have a 3” collector compared to the 3 1/2” on the dyno headers, plus they have evac u pan nipples. I would consider 1 7/8” but one thing always sticks in my mind, Joe Sherman stated in a magazine article that those headers don’t seem to work on any small block.
Well, I can tell you what, the 1st thought I had, was I would try bigger headers, run a vaccum pump, bump compression and run Q-16. I bet it goes over 700.

The header thing, I did a 331, 327 based deal for a road race engine. Engine wasn't making the power I though it should, we started with using some 1 5/8 hooker competition headers, nothing great, but not total garbage. We finally said lets put your headers on. They were 1 7/8 with a 3.5 collector. It picked up over 50hp and made more tq everywhere. We said WOW. The 460hp 410 ft lb ho pooch, went over 500hp and made almost 440 tq. They were really nice custom headers built by the owner, to fit his chassis. I have seen 20-30 hp from good 1 3/4's to 1 7/8's numerous times on sbc's.
Engine will go back on the dyno this year, one of the tests will be to compare my small collector headers to the dyno large collector headers. At some point I will need to replace my headers, I just wish I had a set of 1 7/8’s to try. I’m concerned that a very small gain in peak HP might be offset by a large loss in numbers at the bottom of the on track powerband.
Run the converter you should, and any loss down there will have zero, nada, zilch affect down there. Seriously, if you ran a 6200+ converter, like it should have, it will run faster, guaranteed

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Re: SBC Dyno results, where to go from here

Post by rustbucket79 » Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:33 pm

Well when I grabbed my headers and knocked them on the ground a half cup of cornflakes came out of the collectors.🤣 A new set of headers is in the future either way.

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Re: SBC Dyno results, where to go from here

Post by vortecpro » Wed Feb 07, 2018 7:46 pm

"Most won't treat their engine the way it takes to produce lowest ET"

Some will..........


"
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Re: SBC Dyno results, where to go from here

Post by MadBill » Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:36 pm

rustbucket79 wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:33 pm
Well when I grabbed my headers and knocked them on the ground a half cup of cornflakes came out of the collectors.🤣 A new set of headers is in the future either way.
Actual cornflakes, or in fact rust? If the latter, Smokey used to tell a story about 'losing' 20 HP during a dyno session and eventually finding it was due to heavy internal corrosion on seemingly-identical headers that got swapped in by mistake. (A plus for SS in humid climates)
Felix, qui potuit rerum cognscere causas.

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Re: SBC Dyno results, where to go from here

Post by rustbucket79 » Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:04 am

Rust :lol: left them in the shed for some reason... #-o

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Re: SBC Dyno results, where to go from here

Post by rfoll » Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:34 am

rustbucket79 wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 8:42 pm
vortecpro wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 7:50 pm
rustbucket79 wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:58 pm


Not mentioned yet is I am showing the best pull of a combo that is corrected. Track can see 3500’ days, and even within these tests we are talking 25, maybe 30 corrected up over what the engine made with my carb/header/full exhaust/etc
I understand what you are saying.......but heres the problem, which comes back to the car setup 1320/133=9.92
Without a doubt the car is undergeared. When I originally built this engine I had 4.56's in the car but magnafluxing the gears showed cracks in the crown. I had a set of used 4.10's so that's what went in. I had planned to step up to 4.30's long before the dyno opportunity presented itself, but ultimately I'm gambling by staying with the 10 bolt diff, so an upgrade is happening in that department before the car hits the track again. Somewhere around 4.56's is what I'll use, it may well be faster with more, however I don't have national event track prep at my home track, so traction is of concern.
I have a nice set of 8.5 10 bolt 5.13 gears I could sell you real cheap if you're interested. I will never turn enough rpm to use them.
So much to do, so little time...

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Re: SBC Dyno results, where to go from here

Post by Frankshaft » Thu Feb 08, 2018 12:13 pm

Sorta off topic, but since rusty headers we're mentioned, something just came to mind. Guys who truck pull and mod bog with headers that come straight out of the hood straight up in the air. You should remove them for long term storage. Condensation runs straight down, right into the ex ports, and right into the cylinders the ex valves are open.

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Re: SBC Dyno results, where to go from here

Post by cgarb » Thu Feb 08, 2018 4:42 pm

Just pour a cup full of staydry in each vertical header pipe to absorb the moisture...lol. On a serious note I know a guy that works at a large food distributor and can get me large bags of silica beads. Like the little packets that come in beef jerky that your not supposed to eat...He races too, and we both would put a large bag of the silica beads in each header and a Nerf football to plug the end. Helps absorb moisture. I think it does help. They also help with steam inside the car too, a fresh one in there each week, when its humid out and cools off at night the inside windows start fogging...not on my car.

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Re: SBC Dyno results, where to go from here

Post by rustbucket79 » Fri Feb 09, 2018 1:39 am

rfoll wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:34 am
rustbucket79 wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 8:42 pm
vortecpro wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 7:50 pm


I understand what you are saying.......but heres the problem, which comes back to the car setup 1320/133=9.92
Without a doubt the car is undergeared. When I originally built this engine I had 4.56's in the car but magnafluxing the gears showed cracks in the crown. I had a set of used 4.10's so that's what went in. I had planned to step up to 4.30's long before the dyno opportunity presented itself, but ultimately I'm gambling by staying with the 10 bolt diff, so an upgrade is happening in that department before the car hits the track again. Somewhere around 4.56's is what I'll use, it may well be faster with more, however I don't have national event track prep at my home track, so traction is of concern.
I have a nice set of 8.5 10 bolt 5.13 gears I could sell you real cheap if you're interested. I will never turn enough rpm to use them.
Thanks for the offer however I am through playing Russian roulette with that 10 bolt, car will have something stronger when it hits the track.

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Re: SBC Dyno results, where to go from here

Post by BrazilianZ28Camaro » Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:34 am

rustbucket79 wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 1:39 am

Thanks for the offer however I am through playing Russian roulette with that 10 bolt, car will have something stronger when it hits the track.
If you 10 bolt is a 8.5" you might be fine with better axles and a spool. I run a 8.5 with 4.30 gears, stock GM posi and Alloy axles. Holding fine at 650hp @3300lbs. But the gears will not like wheel hop.Ask me how I know that.

You can search on the web for some turbo Camaros running high eights with this axle at your weight, but certainly the eletronic is helping the power transfer at the launch.

I also run a Victor ram with a pair of HPs 750s on my stock block pump gas 421". So far my best 1/8" ET is 6.38s @110mph with crappy 1.50 sixty foot.

Two times I had the chance to do a back to back intake testing at the strip (but not the same day, altough similar air conditions), going from a big single plane to a dual 750s T-ram on 350/400ci engines worth .2 to .4s in the eight mile. Engines at 500-600hp range.

I also believe you can find way more power with the T-ram on your combo with fine tunning. They are tricky to tune. Definitelly your car needs more gear, 456 at least.

Keep us updated, good luck! 8)
'71 Z28
Pump gas N/A SBC 427
3308 lbs-29x10.5 Hoosiers
1.45 60' / 4.12 330' / 6.38@110
https://www.facebook.com/hotcampinas/videos/1613315868736984/?hc_ref=ARSyXftkHhnl_IVpeXunYmIakvvLvnqgM2kBgK_BohRBZV7ePgTmSrC0NHPdalZq_BE&pnref=story

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Re: SBC Dyno results, where to go from here

Post by BrazilianZ28Camaro » Fri Feb 09, 2018 8:42 am

Forgot to say, there are two inch open spacers under my carbs!

I believe they help a lot the fuel distribution to the runners. Might worth a try on your combo also.
'71 Z28
Pump gas N/A SBC 427
3308 lbs-29x10.5 Hoosiers
1.45 60' / 4.12 330' / 6.38@110
https://www.facebook.com/hotcampinas/videos/1613315868736984/?hc_ref=ARSyXftkHhnl_IVpeXunYmIakvvLvnqgM2kBgK_BohRBZV7ePgTmSrC0NHPdalZq_BE&pnref=story

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Re: SBC Dyno results, where to go from here

Post by vortecpro » Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:13 am

BrazilianZ28Camaro wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:34 am
rustbucket79 wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 1:39 am

Thanks for the offer however I am through playing Russian roulette with that 10 bolt, car will have something stronger when it hits the track.
If you 10 bolt is a 8.5" you might be fine with better axles and a spool. I run a 8.5 with 4.30 gears, stock GM posi and Alloy axles. Holding fine at 650hp @3300lbs. But the gears will not like wheel hop.Ask me how I know that.

You can search on the web for some turbo Camaros running high eights with this axle at your weight, but certainly the eletronic is helping the power transfer at the launch.

I also run a Victor ram with a pair of HPs 750s on my stock block pump gas 421". So far my best 1/8" ET is 6.38s @110mph with crappy 1.50 sixty foot.

Two times I had the chance to do a back to back intake testing at the strip (but not the same day, altough similar air conditions), going from a big single plane to a dual 750s T-ram on 350/400ci engines worth .2 to .4s in the eight mile. Engines at 500-600hp range.

I also believe you can find way more power with the T-ram on your combo with fine tunning. They are tricky to tune. Definitelly your car needs more gear, 456 at least.

Keep us updated, good luck! 8)
We runs 8s @ 3400 with a 8.5 10 bolt, no problem.
https://youtu.be/d2sjOTHaD6Q
Racing a NA NHRA stocker should be mandatory before any posting.

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Re: SBC Dyno results, where to go from here

Post by rustbucket79 » Sat Feb 10, 2018 1:17 pm

BrazilianZ28Camaro wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:34 am
rustbucket79 wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 1:39 am

Thanks for the offer however I am through playing Russian roulette with that 10 bolt, car will have something stronger when it hits the track.
If you 10 bolt is a 8.5" you might be fine with better axles and a spool. I run a 8.5 with 4.30 gears, stock GM posi and Alloy axles. Holding fine at 650hp @3300lbs. But the gears will not like wheel hop.Ask me how I know that.

You can search on the web for some turbo Camaros running high eights with this axle at your weight, but certainly the eletronic is helping the power transfer at the launch.

I also run a Victor ram with a pair of HPs 750s on my stock block pump gas 421". So far my best 1/8" ET is 6.38s @110mph with crappy 1.50 sixty foot.

Two times I had the chance to do a back to back intake testing at the strip (but not the same day, altough similar air conditions), going from a big single plane to a dual 750s T-ram on 350/400ci engines worth .2 to .4s in the eight mile. Engines at 500-600hp range.

I also believe you can find way more power with the T-ram on your combo with fine tunning. They are tricky to tune. Definitelly your car needs more gear, 456 at least.

Keep us updated, good luck! 8)
Who’s brand of 4.30’s do you run? Seems to me only Motive makes 4.30’s for the camaro 10 bolt. I liked the looks of that gear since it retains a 10 tooth pinion.

I’m sure the tunnel ram has potential, but I’m not chopping up my car to run one. Ultimately the car is for winning rounds rather than the best ET’s and the throttle response wasn’t as good with the tunnel ram. I did use 1” blend spacers was under the 950’s during the tests. I think the runners in the Victor ram are too small for my heads in it’s current state.

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Re: SBC Dyno results, where to go from here

Post by rustbucket79 » Sat Feb 10, 2018 1:27 pm

vortecpro wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:13 am
BrazilianZ28Camaro wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:34 am
rustbucket79 wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 1:39 am

Thanks for the offer however I am through playing Russian roulette with that 10 bolt, car will have something stronger when it hits the track.
If you 10 bolt is a 8.5" you might be fine with better axles and a spool. I run a 8.5 with 4.30 gears, stock GM posi and Alloy axles. Holding fine at 650hp @3300lbs. But the gears will not like wheel hop.Ask me how I know that.

You can search on the web for some turbo Camaros running high eights with this axle at your weight, but certainly the eletronic is helping the power transfer at the launch.

I also run a Victor ram with a pair of HPs 750s on my stock block pump gas 421". So far my best 1/8" ET is 6.38s @110mph with crappy 1.50 sixty foot.

Two times I had the chance to do a back to back intake testing at the strip (but not the same day, altough similar air conditions), going from a big single plane to a dual 750s T-ram on 350/400ci engines worth .2 to .4s in the eight mile. Engines at 500-600hp range.

I also believe you can find way more power with the T-ram on your combo with fine tunning. They are tricky to tune. Definitelly your car needs more gear, 456 at least.

Keep us updated, good luck! 8)
We runs 8s @ 3400 with a 8.5 10 bolt, no problem.
https://youtu.be/d2sjOTHaD6Q
My 10 bolt (8.5) has a Strange spool, 33 spline axles, c clip eliminators, TA cover and bearing cap studs. Is that the setup you run? What brand of gears and ratio? N/A or power adder? Tranbrake? Stage RPM? 60’ times?

I would love to throw a set of 4.56’s in the car but I am concerned about breaking a gearset and messing up a $4000 transmission 🤬.

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Re: SBC Dyno results, where to go from here

Post by BrazilianZ28Camaro » Sat Feb 10, 2018 5:04 pm

rustbucket79 wrote:
Sat Feb 10, 2018 1:17 pm

Who’s brand of 4.30’s do you run? Seems to me only Motive makes 4.30’s for the camaro 10 bolt. I liked the looks of that gear since it retains a 10 tooth pinion.

I’m sure the tunnel ram has potential, but I’m not chopping up my car to run one. Ultimately the car is for winning rounds rather than the best ET’s and the throttle response wasn’t as good with the tunnel ram. I did use 1” blend spacers was under the 950’s during the tests. I think the runners in the Victor ram are too small for my heads in it’s current state.

Yes only motive makes 4:30s. Quality is not as good as Richmond IMHO.

Wow, Victor ram with small runners?? Now I'm curious to see the heads you run! :lol:

good luck
'71 Z28
Pump gas N/A SBC 427
3308 lbs-29x10.5 Hoosiers
1.45 60' / 4.12 330' / 6.38@110
https://www.facebook.com/hotcampinas/videos/1613315868736984/?hc_ref=ARSyXftkHhnl_IVpeXunYmIakvvLvnqgM2kBgK_BohRBZV7ePgTmSrC0NHPdalZq_BE&pnref=story

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