What Have You Learned from Tech?

General engine tech -- Drag Racing to Circle Track

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barnym17
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Re: What Have You Learned from Tech?

Post by barnym17 » Wed Mar 07, 2018 6:01 am

I got so fast at pulling the radiator and after cooler -which required removing most of the front end first that I would have all the bolts out and front end off before the coolant stopped draining just from constant practice.What sucked is this was pretty much required for everything from a belt change back on the engine.

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Re: What Have You Learned from Tech?

Post by Warp Speed » Wed Mar 07, 2018 7:45 am

hoffman900 wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2018 9:36 pm
barnym17 wrote:
Mon Feb 26, 2018 6:05 am
SchmidtMotorWorks wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 4:14 pm
I learned more from experimenting with 1D software like Eng Mod 4T and Dynomation than everything I have read combined.

Coding a cam design software developed a lot of understanding.

Designing castings and foundry tooling in CAD is a game changer when it comes to understanding and engine and all the compromises involved. It makes the arguments about Ford vs Chevy and who copied who seem idiotic.

Working for OEMs helped me understand why they make the decisions they do, and makes the comments that mechanics make about "stupid engineers" sound ignorant.

Working at Honda HPD taught me that about a long list of the things people worry about when they build engines are unimportant or counterproductive to winning races by putting effort into the wrong priorities.
I know oem has tough choices to make but man when you work on the stuff daily you really learn to dislike engineers. A Ford e series with a 6.0 is a nightmare it's like they had a contest to see who can put the most failure prone engine in the tightest spot possible.
Working on multi-disciplinary teams has taught me one of the most important attributes for success is humbleness.

A single engineer needs to realize he doesn’t know everything, and needs to rely on a team of engineers, technicians, and the end user for input and be receptive of it. There is nothing worst than an insecure engineer who starts off or ends the argument with “...well I’m and engineer...”

A mechanic needs to realize just because one can bolt together an object, doesn’t mean they know how to design it. Torquing a nut down on a stud tells you nothing why the stud needs the strength it needs, why the torque needs to be a certain value, etc. That said, they sometimes see things in the field that the engineer may not. I don’t think a guy like Dr. Andrew Randolph or the late Keith Duckworth has/had assembled many engines (I could be wrong!), but you would be a doofus to not listen to him or anything written by or about Keith based on that.

Everyone really just needs to listen to each other. Good team leaders help with that. Unfortunately, most people are so far up their own butts (either as an individual or a collective “us vs. them”) that stuff doesn’t get done as effective as it should.
I can tell you one thing for sure, Dr. Randolph should NEVER have any tool in his hand..........EVER! Lol

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Re: What Have You Learned from Tech?

Post by n2xlr8n » Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:57 am

hoffman900 wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2018 9:36 pm
That said, they sometimes see things in the field that the engineer may not. I don’t think a guy like Dr. Andrew Randolph or the late Keith Duckworth has/had assembled many engines (I could be wrong!), but you would be a doofus to not listen to him or anything written by or about Keith based on that.
Exactly.

My former director (PhD Physicist) was like that. Put a meter in his hand and stand back- something was going to arc.

But- if he told you (from behind his desk) that the beam steering was fluctuating due to X..you had better be listening.

Quick story: When I built my first BBC, it didn't perform as expected on the track. He took one look at the setup/timeslip/datalog and stated: You're not supplying enough fuel volume. I'm thinking: Right. Two months later when a racer told me the same thing, I replaced the -8 with -10.

It flew.

Point is, some folks are so bright (and educated) that they are capable of logic we can't even imagine. I'm okay with that, just teach me.
He who is in me is greater than he who is in the world.

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Re: What Have You Learned from Tech?

Post by rfoll » Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:16 am

barnym17 wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 5:56 am
Oh I understand what you are saying, it's just when you deal with issues all the time such as wiring harness chaffing which on these particular vehicles was a known issue after about the first year of production,one would think they could resolve it.Instead they tell you where it is going to happen tell you to cut open and repair a harness that is barely long enough as it is. Or tell you to reroute after the repair to avoid the issue, you would think if they knew it needed rerouted slightly after years of production they would do it in the first place.
I have a friend that makes a living repairing Ford automatic transmissions. The trouble prone parts that fail are always replaced by the same part under warranty, instead of the upgraded replacement. He makes a good living doing post-warranty repair at $2500+ per trans.
So much to do, so little time...

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Re: What Have You Learned from Tech?

Post by FC-Pilot » Wed Mar 07, 2018 2:26 pm

Zmechanic wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 12:19 am
I totally get why this type of sentiment comes about. It's from frustration. But understand it wasn't done "just because". Everybody has their set of pressures and motivations. The engineers have theirs too, and are likely being held to certain constraints. What comes out is a product with a set of compromises in ways everyone involved with the design believes will be the most successful. In other words, sell the most without sacrificing quality to an unacceptable level.
I formerly worked for a third party testing company that did brake testing for many of the auto manufacturers. Seeing some of the constraints some of them had to work within was amazing. They had very little "wiggle room" to build a better mouse trap. Now I am employed my one of the manufacturers and I am shocked as to how stuff rolls downhill. Needless to say, I know what cars I am not buying.

Paul
"It's a fine line between clever and stupid." David St. Hubbins

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Re: What Have You Learned from Tech?

Post by stealth » Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:44 pm

peejay wrote:
Sat Feb 03, 2018 5:55 am
I've learned a lot of interesting things.

I have also learned that a lot of magazine writers are full of ..it! if the magazine focuses on how a car looks over how it functions (basically 90% of the American magazine market and all of the UK market that filters to this continent) then you can read it but be prepared to throw the magazine in anger. ESPECIALLY the UK rags, there seemed to be a mindset that knowledge about how things worked was indicative of being in a lower class, so displaying ignorance was a sign of being high class. About the third time I saw a certain magazine say that a slipping clutch would "split the transmission case",
This says it all......
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Re: What Have You Learned from Tech?

Post by MadBill » Fri Mar 09, 2018 6:24 pm

Agghh! Not only is it a clutch disc, but he also appears to be sliding it directly onto the transmission input shaft without bothering to sandwich it between the flywheel and the pressure plate.. #-o
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Re: What Have You Learned from Tech?

Post by peejay » Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:22 pm

You don't check a clutch disk for fitment on the trans to make sure they gave you the right one, and that there are no burrs on the splines?

I mean, er... No, see, that is those Toyota full diameter brake pads. Or rather the friction material rotates and the calipers clamp the iron. That way any runout is self corrected. The damper springs are an innovative anti-lock mechanism that prevents wheel lockup due to stuttering over bumps.

(I have a PhD in BS!)

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Re: What Have You Learned from Tech?

Post by GARY C » Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:29 pm

Thats one of them there jack brake thingies like them ol truckers use. :D

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Re: What Have You Learned from Tech?

Post by GARY C » Sat Mar 10, 2018 6:45 pm

GLHS60 wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 2:56 am
Reminds me of Smokeys explanation of why Ford Engines have the oil pan on backwards !!

Thanks
Randy

Zmechanic wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 12:19 am
barnym17 wrote:
Mon Feb 26, 2018 6:05 am
le.
I totally get why this type of sentiment comes about. It's from frustration. But understand it wasn't done "just because". Everybody has their set of pressures and motivations. The engineers have theirs too, and are likely being held to certain constraints. What comes out is a product with a set of compromises in ways everyone involved with the design believes will be the most successful. In other words, sell the most without sacrificing quality to an unacceptable level.
This makes me think about the restraints tech writers have to deal with to try to bring the best info to the public while making the publisher and the product supplier happy.

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Re: What Have You Learned from Tech?

Post by FC-Pilot » Mon Mar 12, 2018 2:23 pm

Image

I can't say that is the company I work for, but I can't say I don't work for them either. If I showed that picture to most of my engineers here at work they would not get what the problem is.

Paul
"It's a fine line between clever and stupid." David St. Hubbins

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Re: What Have You Learned from Tech?

Post by Belgian1979 » Mon Mar 12, 2018 3:22 pm

FC-Pilot wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 2:23 pm
Image

I can't say that is the company I work for, but I can't say I don't work for them either. If I showed that picture to most of my engineers here at work they would not get what the problem is.

Paul
That made me smile. :D

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