bearing damage

General engine tech -- Drag Racing to Circle Track

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Warp Speed
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Re: bearing damage

Post by Warp Speed » Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:19 pm

Barry_R wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:45 pm
Its not oil pump cavitation - its bearing cavitation - similar name but a different deal.

No signs of heat or smearing on the surface - it had lube, but something pulled the material away from the bearing.
Yep, and typically more clearance aggravates it!

bentvalves
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Re: bearing damage

Post by bentvalves » Wed Feb 07, 2018 7:57 pm

Id send the bearings back to the manufacturer and see what they had to say about it.

exhaustgases
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Re: bearing damage

Post by exhaustgases » Thu Feb 08, 2018 6:46 am

What are the clearances? What is the oil viscosity? What rpm range? What kind of load? How many miles or hours on the bearings?

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Re: bearing damage

Post by jed » Thu Feb 08, 2018 7:10 am

exhaustgases wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 6:46 am
What are the clearances? What is the oil viscosity? What rpm range? What kind of load? How many miles or hours on the bearings?
Exactly, I get called in to warranty issues and there is no information on the engine
Except low oil pressure or some other vague issue.

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Re: bearing damage

Post by n2xlr8n » Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:13 am

bentvalves wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 7:57 pm
Id send the bearings back to the manufacturer and see what they had to say about it.
One of those has already commented here. :D
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Re: bearing damage

Post by AC sports » Fri Feb 09, 2018 12:41 am

Clearances were 0.050 -0.055mm. Oil used during the life of the engine was 20w 50 later changed for 15w40. Engine only done 20,000 road km. Around 2000km short distance sprint and hill climb events. Oil Temps on road around 80*c . Pushed hard maybe hit 120*c but very rarely. Usually my highs are 110*c.
Max rpm 7200.
oil pressure 65psi+ hot above 3500rpm.
Main bearings are clevite bi metal.
Rod are federal mogal bi metal.
Thrust are oem and look like new.
I know these are not race bearings but I really didn't expect such damage so soon.

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Re: bearing damage

Post by exhaustgases » Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:00 pm

I like the metric system, but when it comes to the small sizes, I know the English fractional better, .05mm = .00196, and .055mm = .00216.
So what is the journal diameter?
I don't think those holes in the bearings are helping much. I'm thinking the oil is gathering in them and causing localized high pressure areas, it seems the damage is close to those holes. Using the thicker oil and what maybe a slightly loose clearance maybe also adding to that localized high oil pressure and causing the cavitation as well as that erosion area. Just some wild speculation. Where is the crankpin oil hole located? Angle? The one photo of the bearing in the rod looks like it went through the soft metal and has either a melted or fluid pressure distorted look to it at the right hand lower of that rod bearing half??

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Re: bearing damage

Post by stealth » Sat Feb 10, 2018 1:04 pm

bentvalves wrote:
Wed Feb 07, 2018 7:57 pm
Id send the bearings back to the manufacturer and see what they had to say about it.
Agree...sure looks like a bearing plating issue.

It’s a manufactured part...things go wrong.
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Re: bearing damage

Post by integrale Evo » Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:36 pm

exhaustgases wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:00 pm
I like the metric system, but when it comes to the small sizes, I know the English fractional better, .05mm = .00196, and .055mm = .00216.
So what is the journal diameter?
50.8mm

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Re: bearing damage

Post by AC sports » Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:42 am

integrale Evo wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:36 pm
exhaustgases wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:00 pm
I like the metric system, but when it comes to the small sizes, I know the English fractional better, .05mm = .00196, and .055mm = .00216.
So what is the journal diameter?
50.8mm
I bought some king tri metal Integrale bearings meant for rods without oil holes for the rebuild. Have u had the Integrale apart? How did yours look? Brand of bearing?

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Re: bearing damage

Post by integrale Evo » Wed Feb 14, 2018 2:15 pm

AC sports wrote:
Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:42 am
integrale Evo wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:36 pm
exhaustgases wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:00 pm
I like the metric system, but when it comes to the small sizes, I know the English fractional better, .05mm = .00196, and .055mm = .00216.
So what is the journal diameter?
50.8mm
I bought some king tri metal Integrale bearings meant for rods without oil holes for the rebuild. Have u had the Integrale apart? How did yours look? Brand of bearing?
I've had one or two apart yes, but they aren't in particularly good order when they come to me. I don't know who made the original bearings, they had Fiat and CL (inside a diamond) on them, I also don't know why the earlier models like yours had holes in the bearings and the later ones didn't.

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Re: bearing damage

Post by AC sports » Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:13 am

The ones with holes like mine didn't have oil squirters in the block pointing up under the piston like yours. My current rods have 2 holes in them that point up. My new rods don't need them either. They get splash lubrication. Tried and tested I hear.
Your right about the oem bearings. These were changed by myself a while back. I always thought CL was clevite & made for fiat/lancia but prob wrong.

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Re: bearing damage

Post by Belgian1979 » Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:28 am

Just asking : what’s the reasoning behind asking the question about the battery charger ?

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Re: bearing damage

Post by AC sports » Fri Feb 16, 2018 2:26 am

I'm guessing some sort of electrolysis?
But it definitely looks like water damage now I'm examining it under magnification.

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Re: bearing damage

Post by joe 90 » Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:48 am

Why are you still looking at the bearings when it's the crank that's [DELETE THIS POST].

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