Roller lifter checking fixture

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Roller lifter checking fixture

Post by cjperformance » Sun Jan 14, 2018 7:56 pm

Does anyone know of a commercially available checking fixture for roller lifters?
Something that can quickly and accurately check if the roller is at 90* to the body and aligned correctly with the tie bar.

Currently I 'trust' that the lobe is correct, have the block lifter true checked in some cases, then use a thin smear of bearing blue to check for roller contact during trial assembly.
A long winded process yes, but it works.
Doing this I have found 2 roller wheels not at 90* to the body and 5 tie bars that needed a tweek! Early failures averted i know, but I want something to speed up my checking process.

What are others here doing to ensure rollers are in correct alignment?

Cheers,
Craig.

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Re: Roller lifter checking fixture

Post by peejay » Sun Jan 14, 2018 8:54 pm

Wouldn't the tie bar depend heavily on how the block was machined?

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Re: Roller lifter checking fixture

Post by cjperformance » Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:46 pm

peejay wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 8:54 pm
Wouldn't the tie bar depend heavily on how the block was machined?
Definetly, i should have added that 95% of the engines I do, SBF, BBF, SBC have inline lifter bores so use a straight tiebar.
So if lifter bores are aligned correctly to cam tunnel etc the tie bar should be straight and the rollers inline with one another and the tiebar.
Hope that makes sense.
Craig.

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Re: Roller lifter checking fixture

Post by Newold1 » Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:15 am

What axis of alignment are you referencing and measuring on the roller axles? Is it the 90 degree relative to the tie bar (right-left) or is this the axis relative the the the lobe on the camshaft. Lifter roller axis to the lobe on the camshaft is obviously the most important as that is the surface the roller makes contact with and follows so any misalignment there would lead to obvious problems. If the axis you are measuring and correcting for is the one relative to the tie bars then I would think there is a fair amount of slop in the tie bar pins that allow a decent measurable movement to allow the two tied lifter bodies and rollers to shift a small amount that would align the rollers to the camshaft lobes and prevent roller wear issues. Am I missing something here? I am interested what you are addressing and what problems you have seen relative to needing this check?

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Re: Roller lifter checking fixture

Post by modok » Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:22 am

Perhaps you can use a spirit level.
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Re: Roller lifter checking fixture

Post by cjperformance » Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:17 pm

modok wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:22 am
Perhaps you can use a spirit level.
I cant say im that good with a spirit level ! :lol:
Craig.

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Re: Roller lifter checking fixture

Post by cgarb » Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:40 pm

A machinist level would work, we have one that will check .001" in 12". Not your average construction level, ours is a cheaper import one we use on the machine. I'm sure there is more accurate levels out there than that.

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Re: Roller lifter checking fixture

Post by cgarb » Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:44 pm

If it we're me, I would use a v block set on a surface plate and use a test indicators to check one side of the wheel to the other.

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Re: Roller lifter checking fixture

Post by cjperformance » Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:50 pm

Newold1 wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:15 am
What axis of alignment are you referencing and measuring on the roller axles? Is it the 90 degree relative to the tie bar (right-left) or is this the axis relative the the the lobe on the camshaft. Lifter roller axis to the lobe on the camshaft is obviously the most important as that is the surface the roller makes contact with and follows so any misalignment there would lead to obvious problems. If the axis you are measuring and correcting for is the one relative to the tie bars then I would think there is a fair amount of slop in the tie bar pins that allow a decent measurable movement to allow the two tied lifter bodies and rollers to shift a small amount that would align the rollers to the camshaft lobes and prevent roller wear issues. Am I missing something here? I am interested what you are addressing and what problems you have seen relative to needing this check?
Ok I'm checking the centerline of the roller axle basically. Checking that the axles horizontal centerline is at 90* to the lifter body , the roller axle centerline is aligned with the tiebar mount and that the tie bar is then keeping the two roller axle centerlines aligned.

For tiebar to roller axle alignmnet- By bluing the roller/lobe and running it thru 1 cam revolution with just a light checking spring i have found that about 1/3 - 1/2 way up the lobe the slop/movement in the tie bar has been completely taken up (as in the lifter has had to rotate from relaxed tie bar posi) and the bluing from there up till aprox 3/4 way up the lobe shows that the roller is loaded more on one side than the other.

For roller axle to lifter body alignment- this shows up more as uneven loading of the roller on the base circle and nose of the lobe.

Tie bar misalignment- If you then check again with full valve spring force you dont see the tiebar misalignment by bluing but you can feel that the tie bar has tightened up on its pivot at the lifter as the spring force holds the roller on the lobe.

Axle to lifter body- in this case 1 still showed up as just not looking the same as the rest (properly aligned ones) with blue on the lobe, so this was taking up all of the lifter/bore clearance (tilting the lifter) and still the roller was not riding quite flat on the base/nose! A sure failure waiting to happen.
The other roller axle i picked up would look ok with full spring on it but im sure this would eventuall kill the roller/lobe earlier than a properly aligned axle.

So,, i was thinking of making up a fixture out of some small V blocks and parallel plates to try and check the rollers quickly but I thought I would try to find something ready made to save time in making something.
Craig.

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Re: Roller lifter checking fixture

Post by cjperformance » Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:55 pm

cgarb wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:44 pm
If it we're me, I would use a v block set on a surface plate and use a test indicators to check one side of the wheel to the other.
Yes this is kind of what I'm thinking and great for a lifter with an exposed roller. Not so easy on a lifter where the body skirts the roller.
And on the machinists level, yes that accuracy would be far better than my current spirit levels!
Cheers
Craig.

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Re: Roller lifter checking fixture

Post by modok » Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:49 pm

If you are checking for angular alignment over a very short distance, I am quite sure a spirit level would be more accurate than an indicator. .001" per foot is easy. I have levels that cost 8$ that can do that, so of course they can be a lot better. if you have something a half inch wide then that is a total one ten-thousanth over that distance.

Yes some indicators are that good, but at that point you are just as much measuring the surface texture, and any bit of vibration or dust will throw it off.

If you HAVe a surface plate or a machine tool.....isn't it leveled? so you have a leveled surface, and a level already.
Last edited by modok on Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Roller lifter checking fixture

Post by MadBill » Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:50 pm

A V block and test indicator will also work for checking roller radial run out. I don't know that it affects anything once you've found the low spot of an eccentric roller and used it for setting lash*, but it's not a confidence-builder to have the lash measurement rising and falling by (in my experience) up to 0.004" with no actual adjustment made. *(f I can't immediately replace such a part, I just ASSume it will settle on the low spot.)
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Re: Roller lifter checking fixture

Post by cjperformance » Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:03 pm

modok wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:49 pm
If you are checking for angular alignment over a very short distance, I am quite sure a spirit level would be more accurate than an indicator. .001" per foot is easy. I have levels that cost 8$ that can do that, so of course they can be a lot better. if you have something a half inch wide then that is a total one ten-thousanth over that distance.

Yes some indicators are that good, but at that point you are just as much measuring the surface texture, and any bit of vibration or dust will throw it off.

If you HAVe a surface plate or a machine tool.....isn't it leveled? so you have a leveled surface, and a level already.
The more i think about the spirit level the more i like it, as yes .001"/foot has to be as close as can be to spot on!
I was really hoping there was something already out there that i could just buy The lazy way yes!
Craig.

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Re: Roller lifter checking fixture

Post by cjperformance » Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:04 pm

MadBill wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:50 pm
A V block and test indicator will also work for checking roller radial run out. I don't know that it affects anything once you've found the low spot of an eccentric roller and used it for setting lash*, but it's not a confidence-builder to have the lash measurement rising and falling by (in my experience) up to 0.004" with no actual adjustment made. *(f I can't immediately replace such a part, I just ASSume it will settle on the low spot.)
Yes same, i dont like that at all! Its common sense that the low spot will get a hammering and be the cause of shortened life !!
Craig.

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Re: Roller lifter checking fixture

Post by modok » Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:15 pm

If you could level the camshaft bore, then you could check the alignment of the lifters to the cam IN the engine. :D

When boring or decking a block we do this with the main bearing bore, not the cam tunnel, but you could get creative.
Glen Urban

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