Engine assembly chemicals

General engine tech -- Drag Racing to Circle Track

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Krooser
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Engine assembly chemicals

Post by Krooser » Sat Jan 06, 2018 4:40 am

Most here may know I'm a pretty old school guy.. I can sometimes dismiss modern tech as a bunch of advertising scams and hogwash. But recently I've found a few products that might be useful for engine assembly.

First honing oils... yea I know I smell this stuff every time I venture into a real engine shop but do I really need to use this stuff on my upcoming engine build? Always used atf with my rigid hone but I'll be using a ball hone this time.

On to ball hones... what grit for an alky race motor with Total Seal claimer or Mahle moly rings.

Engine assembly lube... I have used "real" EOS since the 60's... any reason to switch to Gibbs, Total Seal or any other brand?

How about TS piston ring seating compound... not sure of the real name. Good for my race engine AND a street beater build? I am actually thinking of reusing the rings that came out of my sbm for a beater build since they have less than 25 laps on them... good subject for the Engine Masters guys!

Enough head scratchers for today... stay warm out there.
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Re: Engine assembly chemicals

Post by Matt80 » Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:47 pm

Krooser wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 4:40 am

Engine assembly lube... I have used "real" EOS since the 60's... any reason to switch to Gibbs, Total Seal or any other brand?
I'm sorry I can't help you, but I have a question in-topic about engine assembly lube:
I always used Torco's but, as those are supposed to get on the bearings, I wonder if anyone ever checked if they are filtered and with no particles inside

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Re: Engine assembly chemicals

Post by mag2555 » Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:33 pm

Does not everybody crack there motor open to reapply assy lube every time they restart it after the initial start up?
In other words , give me a brake with the assy lube stuff other then Cams !

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Re: Engine assembly chemicals

Post by cuisinartvette » Mon Jan 08, 2018 4:02 pm

haha mag the internet will tell you its a must add 10 secret sauces if your car sits more than 2 days

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Re: Engine assembly chemicals

Post by autogear » Mon Jan 08, 2018 4:53 pm

I've used Lubriplate 105 for most of my life, break in engine oil for the cylinder walls, etc and a moly-based cam lube (Cranes stuff or Rev Lube usually).

Not a fan of the syrup Comp sent me the last few times.

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Re: Engine assembly chemicals

Post by cgarb » Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:30 pm

Here is what I do, right wrong or indifferent...Just a home builder, don't do this for a living. I use the red or green assembly lube on the bearings, federal mogul was the last brand I bought and it was green. I use the Gibbs grease sometimes if the engine is going to sit for a while before started, I use the grease on camshafts also. ATF for on the cylinder wall. Gibbs break in oil if a flat tappet, roller I use Valvoline VR1. Have not had any issues.

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Re: Engine assembly chemicals

Post by MadBill » Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:43 pm

Krooser wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 4:40 am
..How about TS piston ring seating compound... not sure of the real name. Good for my race engine AND a street beater build?..
Quickseat® Here's one man's take on it: https://crfsonly.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=22963
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Re: Engine assembly chemicals

Post by cgarb » Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:03 pm

The quick seat powder seems like a nice idea in theory...I just cant bring myself to put an engine together with no oil of some kind on the cylinder walls. What happens if you don't start it for a month and they cylinder walls rust? All that prep and detail is worthless in my eyes. I would think as soon as the engine fires and the oil gets flinging around the dry film powder will be washed away within a second or two anyway. I'm not opposed to a new idea, but I would have to see first hand evidence with my own eyes to convince me.

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Re: Engine assembly chemicals

Post by Walter R. Malik » Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:57 pm

Whenever I use a ball hone, it is merely to de-glaze a cylinder which is already straight and round.

I have found that the non-foaming "engine degreaser" in the spray can does a very good job for ball honing with this and cleans-up very easily.

As for assembly lube ... we used 1/2 & 1/2 ATF with 90W-140 gear lube 40 some years ago and I still use it today.
High pressure lube on flat tappet cams and lifters; (Gibbs lube seems to be almost the same thing).
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Re: Engine assembly chemicals

Post by Krooser » Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:15 pm

Well now we know... I really don't plan on varying my standard assembly procedure but thought someone might have some insight into a newer, better, cheaper lube.

I use ATF on the rings and pistons, EOS on the engine bearings and valve train and usually a moly paste on the cam lobes. If the engine sits a bit before I fire it I will pull the intake and slather the valley with EOS again.

The last Hemi I did sat for two years... I pulled the intake and found everything was still pretty lubed up... stoill used ome more EOS.
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Re: Engine assembly chemicals

Post by modok » Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:04 pm

I don't see any problem with that, at all.

Gl5 gear oil may used where you use the EOS, better for some things like as valve guides, piston pins, might be slightly worse for staying in place on larger areas. People are always afraid they'll change EOS....but gear oil isn't going anywhere.
A lot of things will change but cars will will always be gears, grease, tires and wheel bearings.
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Re: Engine assembly chemicals

Post by Krooser » Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:21 pm

The only problem with GL5 gear oil is it attacks 'yellow' metal... but GL4 won't.
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Re: Engine assembly chemicals

Post by hoodeng » Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:56 pm

In my circumstance i can not be sure of the time frame of when an engine will be fired for the first time after overhaul , i have had customers on a completed running and road ridden bike the next day after the engine was picked up ,and on the other hand have received phone calls a couple of years after delivery asking if the timing is ok?? as they are going to start the motor for the first time [This is always amusing as i won't install fuel systems ,charge systems or ignition systems]

So every engine goes together with a long stand time catered for. MPZ on all bush and bearing surfaces, ASP on valve tips and pushrod tips,Lubriplate on the the springs,MPZ on stems and in guides plus smeared over valve heads and seats [guides cleaned with thinners before stem seals are installed with 620 Loctite] ,oil swabbed bores with excess wiped of at the top of the stroke, four or five drops of eng oil on each ring and rotated to 180°gap intervals a swipe of MPZ on the thrust faces , Lubriplate 130-AA on the rod and main roller sets , 500ml of eng oil in the bottom end and rotated to cover the wheel set before top end installation, Lubriplate on lobes ,MPZ on followers .Then all orifices sealed.

Motor not to be rotated after i finish with it till it's to be run.

I'm sure though there are a lot of very good products and practices that have served guys well over the years.It's not having comebacks that proves our practices right .

Cheers.

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Re: Engine assembly chemicals

Post by JoePorting » Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:03 pm

I don't see any reason why to use an assembly oil other than the oil you plan on using in the engine. As I see it, as soon as you hook up the drill on the oil pump to see if you have oil pressure, you've just blown out all the assemble lube and now it's plugging up your oil filter. I just smear oil on all the contact parts and leave it at that. Never had a problem.

If the engine is going to sit for a few years, the first thing I'd do is hook the drill back up to the oil filter and blow oil everywhere. Although if you think the cylinders are dry you might want to pull the heads to inspect, or at least look throught the sparkplug hole with a scope. But as long as the motor hand cranks over with very little resistance, you should be okay.
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Re: Engine assembly chemicals

Post by modok » Mon Jan 08, 2018 11:28 pm

Krooser wrote:
Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:21 pm
The only problem with GL5 gear oil is it attacks 'yellow' metal... but GL4 won't.
I don't believe you will see any problem from this as an assembly lube.
Many EP additives ARE corrosive to metal at higher temps but that's also HOW they work, so, I'd actually expect it to be so.

If it eats brass, it should turn tin to smoke, but if that was going to be an issue I would have seen some hint of it discoloring a tri-metal bearing and I haven't. In fact, I bethca the oils on human hands cause more corrosion to your light metals at ROOm temperature.
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