ECR GM LS Daytona Prototype engines

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Zmechanic
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Re: ECR GM LS Daytona Prototype engines

Post by Zmechanic » Thu Jan 04, 2018 5:00 pm

hoffman900 wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 2:23 pm
You can find a 14 year old that could write those algorithms for you in about 10 minutes. Give them another hour and they could probably make it an app on your phone.
Lol, I think you severely over-estimate 14yr olds. But I get your point.
hoffman900 wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 2:23 pm
What seems foreign, complicated, and expensive to you may not be. "Kids" may not be into cars today, but they could program circles around anyone here. Find a way to get them to put their skills to use with cars. Shit-canning technology and talking about how everything use to be better with carburetors is a sure fire way to keep them far away.
Kind of like NHRA did when they forced pro-stock to use EFI but then forced teams to use the holley ECU with locked firmware. I'm still bitter :evil: Dumb move if I've ever seen one.
hoffman900 wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 2:23 pm
As an older millennial, I really don't see the nostalgia. Sure the cars are cool, but most races that were recorded are on Youtube now and I can watch them myself (and not get the race filtered through the glasses of nostalgia). Most of the time they were runaway races or very few were on the lead lap. That includes Trans Am, Can Am, NASCAR, etc.
You are probably an Xennial, like me. I am technically a millennial, but I was not born with a smart phone in my hand like the majority. It has been shown there is a pretty stark difference in behavior based solely on that and access to broadband internet from birth. In any case, the whole generation thing is played out and has far outlived its usefullness, imho.

To me, the racing nostalgia comes in from imagining myself in that time, wondering if I could have come up with the things that people were thinking of back then. It's pretty humbling sometimes to see what ingenious things people devised before the age of computers.

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Re: ECR GM LS Daytona Prototype engines

Post by KnightEngines » Thu Jan 04, 2018 5:25 pm

I'll get some pics of the heads up when I start working on them in a couple of weeks.

They are a GM casting, but nothing I've ever seen before, 7mm stem Ti valves, copper beryllium seats, they take specific intake manifolds & rocker gear etc.

From the few minutes I've spent looking at them they are pretty nice.

We're aiming to make 700hp from them on E85 with 6L capacity (max capacity in IPRA).

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Re: ECR GM LS Daytona Prototype engines

Post by CamKing » Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:14 pm

hoffman900 wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 2:20 pm
Newold1 wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 2:12 pm
Where would the world of automotive and other forms of racing be today if every vehicle and engine was homologated to be the same ! ? Think about it !
They're not.
Actually, according to IMSA, they are.
" A 2017 IMSA DPi car is a standard ACO/FIA homologated 2017 LM P2 Prototype chassis from one of the four approved constructors (Dallara, Onroak Automotive, ORECA or Riley/Multimatic) fitted with IMSA-homologated, manufacturer-designed and branded bodywork and engines."

This is what killed IndyCar, and it will kill this series too.
Mike Jones
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Re: ECR GM LS Daytona Prototype engines

Post by Newold1 » Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:20 pm

X 2 Mike !! =D>

Proof of this thought

How many here and in the enthusiasts world have forgotten what the Cobra did to Le Mans in the early sixties ! Wow- 60 plus years ago !!

How many here know of the top of their head what car and team won the DP Champion ship in 2014, Wow 3 years ago ! Not many ! Pretty sad but true!

Those Cobras ran away form the field and the world of racing loved it! If homologation was in place then how many would have remembered their crushing defeat of Ferrari ?

People in racing who think the playing field should be perfectly level are actually working hard to make all forms of racing obsolete. Why are the names Smokey Yunick and Bill Jenkins and such so revered because they where constantly striving to make the playing field very off level and the enthusiasts and fans loved it !! Keep it level-BORING, open it up-EXCITING, that's what in many opinions keeps racing alive! Alas, it seems the governing groups in racing forms today are having a real hard time seeing the forest thru the trees! They want to make it CORRECT, Bullshit , make if fun and exciting! JMO :wink: Here comes the Shitstorm !
Last edited by Newold1 on Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: ECR GM LS Daytona Prototype engines

Post by pamotorman » Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:31 pm

one reason for spec cars and engines it makes it easier for the tech inspectors. they have a good idea what should be there to meet the rules. when it was run what you broung tech inspection was a lot easier. :D

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Re: ECR GM LS Daytona Prototype engines

Post by peejay » Sat Jan 06, 2018 8:59 am

pamotorman wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 4:44 pm
my point was before a lot more people could afford to race. all this added expanse has driven the average guy out of racing. i built engines that ran the Daytona 500 and other NASCAR big track racing events and you can not do that anymore. all these racing associations are having trouble filling the fields because it is too expensive.
Racing will always be expensive because there is always someone willing to throw more money at the problem.

I remember reading in Richard Petty's autobiography how his dad got spooked by someone showing up with slicks, when everyone else was just running worn out old street tires.

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Re: ECR GM LS Daytona Prototype engines

Post by hoffman900 » Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:04 am

peejay wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 8:59 am
pamotorman wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 4:44 pm
my point was before a lot more people could afford to race. all this added expanse has driven the average guy out of racing. i built engines that ran the Daytona 500 and other NASCAR big track racing events and you can not do that anymore. all these racing associations are having trouble filling the fields because it is too expensive.
Racing will always be expensive because there is always someone willing to throw more money at the problem.

I remember reading in Richard Petty's autobiography how his dad got spooked by someone showing up with slicks, when everyone else was just running worn out old street tires.
This. An inflation calculator also puts things into perspective too.

A lot of the old timers who I know who were successful racers either owned a REALLY successful business, successful business person + being a bachelor, or has a really big trust fund. I’m talking real racing (traveling to races for points) not someone who took their car to the local strip, circle track, or road course a couple times.

Look at some of the best racing drivers on the Grand Pric and sportscar world. They mostly came from money and they continue to.
-Bob

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Re: ECR GM LS Daytona Prototype engines

Post by pamotorman » Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:51 am

the reason a lot of drivers today come from money is they needed money to buy into the ride to get their start.

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Re: ECR GM LS Daytona Prototype engines

Post by hoffman900 » Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:57 am

It's always been mostly rich guys...

Mark Donohue - rich kid which certainly helped him get far enough with his own stuff to get noticed
Roger Penske - son of a corporate executive
Dr. Dick Thompson - a dentist
Dan Gurney - son of a retired NYC Met Opera singer
Jim Hall - family was rich from the oil / gas business
Al Holbert - son of Bob Holbert who owned several dealerships

and many more when you start digging around.

I'm not saying these guys weren't talented - that's far from it, but they all came from some means that got them started. Sure there are a bunch who weren't, but the vast majority came from something.

Racing on the semi-professional or professional level has always required means. Some break through with other people's money due to charisma / talent, but there are A LOT of talented drivers out there who hit a dead end because of finances. Today and yesterday.
-Bob

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Re: ECR GM LS Daytona Prototype engines

Post by pdq67 » Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:10 am

hoffman900 wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:36 am
CGT wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:09 am
KnightEngines wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:21 pm
I got the heads off one of them things here now.
Customer got the whole engine, he's bumping it up to 6L capacity, running on E85 & using it for IPRA (Improved production road racing).
My job is to tweak the heads a little to suit an unrestricted 6L engine.
That is one thing I couldn't find in the article. What cylinder head is on these things?
https://m.ebay.com/itm/GM-Racing-LS7-CN ... noapp=true It’s a special GM Racing casting.
Are they Speedmasters! if so, I thought they were subpar?

pdq67

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Re: ECR GM LS Daytona Prototype engines

Post by peejay » Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:23 am

pamotorman wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:51 am
the reason a lot of drivers today come from money is they needed money to buy into the ride to get their start.
That is the way it's always been. Either their own money, or the money of sponsors or patrons.

The only time you see low dollar racing is when it is too esoteric for big money to steamroll in. And, even then, you have to be doing pretty well for yourself to be able to afford to do "cheap" racing!

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Re: ECR GM LS Daytona Prototype engines

Post by pamotorman » Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:53 am

peejay wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:23 am
pamotorman wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:51 am
the reason a lot of drivers today come from money is they needed money to buy into the ride to get their start.
That is the way it's always been. Either their own money, or the money of sponsors or patrons.

The only time you see low dollar racing is when it is too esoteric for big money to steamroll in. And, even then, you have to be doing pretty well for yourself to be able to afford to do "cheap" racing!
now days since racing is so expensive you have to prove yourself on your own money before the sponsors step up. i was in engine building when cocaine $$$ fuel the sport of racing and it was something to see. you had to wear gloves when you counted the money. :D

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Re: ECR GM LS Daytona Prototype engines

Post by peejay » Sat Jan 06, 2018 1:00 pm

pamotorman wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:53 am
peejay wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:23 am
pamotorman wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:51 am
the reason a lot of drivers today come from money is they needed money to buy into the ride to get their start.
That is the way it's always been. Either their own money, or the money of sponsors or patrons.

The only time you see low dollar racing is when it is too esoteric for big money to steamroll in. And, even then, you have to be doing pretty well for yourself to be able to afford to do "cheap" racing!
now days since racing is so expensive you have to prove yourself on your own money before the sponsors step up. i was in engine building when cocaine $$$ fuel the sport of racing and it was something to see. you had to wear gloves when you counted the money. :D
Something happening now is people proving themselves in online racing. Teams/manufacturers are starting to give out drives in real cars based on talent shown in sims. Driving simulators are far more advanced than what you could call a video game. This opens up the world (literally) to driving talent.

Of course, a decent rig for running an online sim would run $5000+, plus monthly expenses for broadband (SO expensive and poor in the US compared to other nations) and games fees. This is even before you get into the really trick stuff like $10k+ motion seats that gyrate around to mimic the G forces.

And this is the cheap way in today...

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Re: ECR GM LS Daytona Prototype engines

Post by Newold1 » Sat Jan 06, 2018 1:30 pm

Heck, with the computers of today the SIMS and the Artificial Intelligence WHY even use drivers !!!Its probably coming to tracks near you soon ! OH for Joy ! :roll:

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Re: ECR GM LS Daytona Prototype engines

Post by hoffman900 » Sat Jan 06, 2018 1:56 pm

Newold1 wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 1:30 pm
Heck, with the computers of today the SIMS and the Artificial Intelligence WHY even use drivers !!!Its probably coming to tracks near you soon ! OH for Joy ! :roll:
Oh please. :roll:
-Bob

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