Chinese juuk?????

[Mark O'Neal]

I wonder how many Chinese engines and componenets are used in FI, TF, Cup, WoO, Lucas Oil and other professional series.

When I go to PRI and see Don Schumacher, Roush-Yates and others standing in the Dung Chow Ping booth saying they endorse and use nothing but ChiCom parts because they are the best in the world then you can call me a believer.

Personally I like buying 'local' so I can go punch a guy in the schnazzola when he screws me over with some poorly made parts... I can't afford a $3,000.00 ticket to Bejing or Timbuktu.

End of rant... honest!

They use them too. I doubt there are many Chinese part i many of those applications. Not becasue they are incapable of it, but because they're no interested on low volume parts. There are a lot more high end parts that originate in China than you might guess. A lot more forgings, a lot more of a lot of things.

I use Chinese, I use American. Depends on the customer. It's his money, after all, and I stopped arguing with them long ago.

[Mark O'Neal]

It's all reverse engineering and stolen designs.

I've had far more product copied/ripped off by American companies than I have Chinese.

We went to one large customer and they had the temerity to leave our reverse engineered stud girdle open in solid works. I've had one purchase a part and use it for their catalog then duplicated the part.

I was buying intakes 1,000 at a time to build Spyders and had the supplier duplicate the manifold and elbow, and they sold them for half of what we could do it for.

It ain't the Chinese......

[Fireonthemountain]

Ignorance is bliss. I remember when the first Chinese intakes came out for the BB Olds from there called the Crosswind, People screamed it was a copy of the Edelbrock RPM Air Gap, but they didn't make one for the BBO to copy then. So a year or two later Edelbrock then made one for it perhaps copying the Crosswind. Of course the Edelbrock's didn't have the cast in port injection bungs in the runners the China intakes had, as an option. Besides this China also pumped out some more intakes for the Olds that flowed well and made good power, and for a fraction of the cost.

Then when the Chinese introduced aluminum heads for the BBO once again people claimed they were just copies of Edelbrock's when it was far from it. They are both closer to being copies of the stock Olds heads, but no one screams and beats their chest making that claim.

China is on the moon, and is far ahead of in some of the most advanced technologies now, and have a 7000+mph offensive rocket nothing can stop. They just in the last year laid off 40,000 workers, at one plant, and replaced them with robots. And they are quickly buying this country out an they get richer and richer. Now back to how to go fast.

[kimosabi]

Very interesting point of views from guys that have been there and observed themselves. Thanks.

[Newold1]

Let us just start calling junk in the marketplace "Junk" and stop labeling it with country labels. We need to start using the term "Aftermarket Junk" because it rears its ugly head everywhere to many times. To use these products just because they are cheap is a cop out and short sided thinking.

I can't build a great engine with this "aftermarket junk" and I don't want to receive or hear excuses from any company or its reps who manufacture, distribute or market bad product. I can't build a great engine with excuses, excuses run like shit and they are way down on power and reliability!

Build it right or don't build it! JMO

[Belgian1979]

Well, both professionally and in my hobby I have not had much luck with certain aftermarket parts coming from low cost countries. Is that a better statement ?

[hoffman900]

Well, both professionally and in my hobby I have not had much luck with certain aftermarket parts coming from low cost countries. Is that a better statement ?

The issue is you're buying low cost parts. They would have been crappy to begin with from anywhere.

Mark's posts describe exactly what I've heard from others in manufacturing.

[roc]

In today's global world of information, sales and distribution there are excellent quality raw materials available to almost everyone on the planet as well as great production and machining equipment and technology. That is not the problem. The problem is a lot of manufacturers and marketers of these materials and products are not necessarily interested in providing great product, just great profits! Don't blame the issues on the country or region, blame it on those type of people and products and let your wallets send them the lashing they deserve! Don't buy their bad Shit!

Good words again Newold1. I'd just change it a bit. The stock market owned companies are mostly interested on immediate profits, quick results, while private owned companies (like many European ones) aim on longevity.

If that were true, you'd be a fool to have a dime in a 401K.

Luckily, it isn't true. No company survives for long if it's focused on short term profits.

Mark, my statement was an exaggerated generalization, but it does happen. Sadly.

[Belgian1979]

Well, both professionally and in my hobby I have not had much luck with certain aftermarket parts coming from low cost countries. Is that a better statement ?

The issue is you're buying low cost parts. They would have been crappy to begin with from anywhere.

Mark's posts describe exactly what I've heard from others in manufacturing.

I don't contest that bad parts can be bought anywhere in the world. The difference is that firms go to China for a cost reason. And the Chinese in general don't have a lot of pride in their products. They only care about their profit.

[hoffman900]

Well, both professionally and in my hobby I have not had much luck with certain aftermarket parts coming from low cost countries. Is that a better statement ?

The issue is you're buying low cost parts. They would have been crappy to begin with from anywhere.

Mark's posts describe exactly what I've heard from others in manufacturing.

I don't contest that bad parts can be bought anywhere in the world. The difference is that firms go to China for a cost reason. And the Chinese in general don't have a lot of pride in their products. They only care about their profit.

I know engineers who do work in China. They have pride in their work, but typically they’re using the profit made from overseas customers and putting back into themselves. Their infrastructure in the developing urban areas are often American or European designed and they ask for the “good stuff”.

[Belgian1979]

The issue is you're buying low cost parts. They would have been crappy to begin with from anywhere.

Mark's posts describe exactly what I've heard from others in manufacturing.

I don't contest that bad parts can be bought anywhere in the world. The difference is that firms go to China for a cost reason. And the Chinese in general don't have a lot of pride in their products. They only care about their profit.

I know engineers who do work in China. They have pride in their work, but typically they’re using the profit made from overseas customers and putting back into themselves. Their infrastructure in the developing urban areas are often American or European designed and they ask for the “good stuff”.

They ask for the good stuff...

[hoffman900]

I don't contest that bad parts can be bought anywhere in the world. The difference is that firms go to China for a cost reason. And the Chinese in general don't have a lot of pride in their products. They only care about their profit.

I know engineers who do work in China. They have pride in their work, but typically they’re using the profit made from overseas customers and putting back into themselves. Their infrastructure in the developing urban areas are often American or European designed and they ask for the “good stuff”.

They ask for the good stuff...

In terms of design. No sense in redesigning it if Westinghouse (RIP), GE, or whomever already designed it.

[Mark O'Neal]

Good words again Newold1. I'd just change it a bit. The stock market owned companies are mostly interested on immediate profits, quick results, while private owned companies (like many European ones) aim on longevity.

If that were true, you'd be a fool to have a dime in a 401K.

Luckily, it isn't true. No company survives for long if it's focused on short term profits.

Mark, my statement was an exaggerated generalization, but it does happen. Sadly.

Of course it does, and American companies make some crap too. The Chinese, however, are perfectly willing to make whatever wee are willing to pay of.. But their not going to send over Bryant cranks for CAT money.

I have now identified the source of the "problem."

[Mark O'Neal]

Well, both professionally and in my hobby I have not had much luck with certain aftermarket parts coming from low cost countries. Is that a better statement ?

The issue is you're buying low cost parts. They would have been crappy to begin with from anywhere.

Mark's posts describe exactly what I've heard from others in manufacturing.

I don't contest that bad parts can be bought anywhere in the world. The difference is that firms go to China for a cost reason. And the Chinese in general don't have a lot of pride in their products. They only care about their profit.

Americans are no different. No profit, no company.

I used to build about 400 engines a year, with a comeback rate of well under 1%. Most of them were Chinese rods and cranks. I had a pile of Scat Billets in stock when the Chinese Ford cranks came in. I had to eBay them at a sizeable loss. Did I have to work onthe Chinese cranks before they went in? Of course. Did that break....no. Not at 500 H/P, 1,000 H/P, or at 1,700 H/P. And I had to work on everyone else's too. We were building engines, not assembling them.

Let's use the standard pins you get with pistons today. Most of them come from China or Argentina. Ever hear about the problems? No? That's because there aren't any. If you want a $2.00 American pin, I'll happily teach you how to make them, because there is no American source.

Burgess-Norton makes crap, Trend is very good, but spendy, and Elgin quit making them because the customers wouldn't pay what it cost to make them, plus profit.

Again, I indicated the driver of the market.

If you don't want to use offshore parts, don't. What anyone else does, however, is none of your concern. Just build your 10 to 12K short block and be happy.

[Mark O'Neal]

Well, both professionally and in my hobby I have not had much luck with certain aftermarket parts coming from low cost countries. Is that a better statement ?

The issue is you're buying low cost parts. They would have been crappy to begin with from anywhere.

Mark's posts describe exactly what I've heard from others in manufacturing.

I don't contest that bad parts can be bought anywhere in the world. The difference is that firms go to China for a cost reason. And the Chinese in general don't have a lot of pride in their products. They only care about their profit.

I'm curious. Do you work for free.

Or do you do it for the "profit?"