EMC 2017 353ci SBC

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77cruiser
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Re: EMC 2017 353ci SBC

Post by 77cruiser » Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:57 pm

zums wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:34 pm
Gonna put that engine in anything?
Tom
Like that pretty Nova?
Jim

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Re: EMC 2017 353ci SBC

Post by randy331 » Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:27 pm

77cruiser wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:57 pm
zums wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:34 pm
Gonna put that engine in anything?
Tom
Like that pretty Nova?
It's sittin in Joe's shop. He said he don't think he'll sell it. He has a 70 chevy truck his dad had, and it sounds like it will end up in there after it gets a hyd roller.

Be interesting to see what it'd run in the nova.

I contemplated getting one of the heads and send it off to have a cnc program done on it. Be a nice head for 350"-400" 4" bore street stuff.

Randy

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Re: EMC 2017 353ci SBC

Post by novadude » Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:45 pm

Finally got around to reading this thread. Wow! Very impressive. Thanks for sharing, guys!

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Re: EMC 2017 353ci SBC

Post by Warp Speed » Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:57 am

cjperformance wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:45 pm
Warp Speed wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:05 am
There can be a slight torque to turn difference between pressures, but most all the power gains with lower oil pressures, are based around oil control in the crankcase.
Warp, have you seen the exact same engine and oil run at differing oil pressures AND measured the oil flow difference between the different pressures?
Yes, allot! Lol

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Re: EMC 2017 353ci SBC

Post by cjperformance » Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:33 am

Warp Speed wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:57 am
cjperformance wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:45 pm
Warp Speed wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:05 am
There can be a slight torque to turn difference between pressures, but most all the power gains with lower oil pressures, are based around oil control in the crankcase.
Warp, have you seen the exact same engine and oil run at differing oil pressures AND measured the oil flow difference between the different pressures?
Yes, allot! Lol
What did you find?
Craig.

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Re: EMC 2017 353ci SBC

Post by Warp Speed » Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:31 pm

cjperformance wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:33 am
Warp Speed wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:57 am
cjperformance wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:45 pm


Warp, have you seen the exact same engine and oil run at differing oil pressures AND measured the oil flow difference between the different pressures?
Yes, allot! Lol
What did you find?
As pressure goes up, so does flow! :P

In all seriousness, what we do is so different architectural and strategy wise, that they really doesn't relate much.
But the physics involved, and the affects they have on output remain the same.

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Re: EMC 2017 353ci SBC

Post by cjperformance » Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:26 pm

Warp Speed wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:31 pm
cjperformance wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:33 am
Warp Speed wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:57 am


Yes, allot! Lol
What did you find?
As pressure goes up, so does flow! :P

In all seriousness, what we do is so different architectural and strategy wise, that they really doesn't relate much.
But the physics involved, and the affects they have on output remain the same.
What - flow increases with pressure ! Naah :lol:

Yes totally know your stuff doesnt really relate to what a lot if us are doing that's why I specifically asked you. Just wondering if you had recorded differences in HP that you would share in relation to reduction of oil pressure in the same engine thus reducing flow, windage etc. Say going up or down just 10lb or like 40 lb Vs 80lb etc.
Thanks
Craig.

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Re: EMC 2017 353ci SBC

Post by MadBill » Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:58 pm

That would be pretty easy to determine for any engine with an external oil pressure relief valve...
Felix, qui potuit rerum cognscere causas.

Happy is he who can discover the cause of things.

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Re: EMC 2017 353ci SBC

Post by cjperformance » Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:02 pm

MadBill wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:58 pm
That would be pretty easy to determine for any engine with an external oil pressure relief valve...
Exactly , ive just never had one on a dyno while playing with relief pressure.
Craig.

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Re: EMC 2017 353ci SBC

Post by randy331 » Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:18 am

Would an engine with a vacuum pump show the same gain, as without, with reduced oil pressure/volume ?

If windage is costing power with more oil pressure,... wouldn't vacuum reduce/eliminate that loss ?

Randy

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Re: EMC 2017 353ci SBC

Post by Warp Speed » Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:31 am

cjperformance wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:26 pm
Warp Speed wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:31 pm
cjperformance wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:33 am


What did you find?
As pressure goes up, so does flow! :P

In all seriousness, what we do is so different architectural and strategy wise, that they really doesn't relate much.
But the physics involved, and the affects they have on output remain the same.
What - flow increases with pressure ! Naah :lol:

Yes totally know your stuff doesnt really relate to what a lot if us are doing that's why I specifically asked you. Just wondering if you had recorded differences in HP that you would share in relation to reduction of oil pressure in the same engine thus reducing flow, windage etc. Say going up or down just 10lb or like 40 lb Vs 80lb etc.
Thanks
The power gain is relative to overall flow and the efficency of the pan/sump system to evacuate or control oil in the crankcase.. Depression level in the crankcase (auxiliary pump/dry sump) effect this too.
On our stuff, 10psi reduction is about 1-1.5hp. The less efficient the system, the higher the gain typically.

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Re: EMC 2017 353ci SBC

Post by Warp Speed » Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:33 am

randy331 wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 12:18 am
Would an engine with a vacuum pump show the same gain, as without, with reduced oil pressure/volume ?

If windage is costing power with more oil pressure,... wouldn't vacuum reduce/eliminate that loss ?

Randy
It definitely reduces the losses some for sure. How much of course depends on flow, overall system design and depression levels.

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Re: EMC 2017 353ci SBC

Post by MadBill » Thu Jan 18, 2018 9:04 am

Big Joe reported up to a 50 HP gain with pan vacuum on an big BBC with rings optimized for it. I've several times seen +12-15 on ~ 450 HP 6500 RPM SBCs with typical circle track ring packages.
Felix, qui potuit rerum cognscere causas.

Happy is he who can discover the cause of things.

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Re: EMC 2017 353ci SBC

Post by CGT » Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:06 am

MadBill wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 9:04 am
Big Joe reported up to a 50 HP gain with pan vacuum on an big BBC with rings optimized for it. I've several times seen +12-15 on ~ 450 HP 6500 RPM SBCs with typical circle track ring packages.
It's always fun to me to try vacuum on the dyno. The results are sometimes really inconsistent. There is one particular motor (Randy knows about) that has an allergy to vacuum. :lol: . It should really respond to it in theory, but is hard headed and doesn't. It tends to pick up the same amount of power that it takes to spin the vacuum pump :lol:

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Re: EMC 2017 353ci SBC

Post by A HotRod » Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:14 am

I contemplated getting one of the heads and send it off to have a cnc program done on it. Be a nice head for 350"-400" 4" bore street stuff.

Randy
[/quote]

That would really nice !
Glenn

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