EMC 2017 353ci SBC

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Rick360
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EMC 2017 353ci SBC

Post by Rick360 » Sat Dec 30, 2017 2:36 pm

Thought I'd start a thread about our (Creason Racing Engines' Team) winning engine in this years (2017) Engine Master's Challenge, Traditional Muscle class. This was really a team effort to get this engine done and up to par to win.
Our team was the same group that entered in 2011 under Randy's name and finished 5th

TeamMembers: Name (Speedtalk Name)
Joe Creason (creasonracingengines)
Rick (Rick360)
Randy (randy331)
* (CGT)
Rick Haynes (not on Speedtalk)

Here's a link to the rules we had to build to - http://st.hotrod.com/uploads/sites/21/2 ... 092117.pdf
353ci Small Block Chevy
570HP at 6500rpm
507 ft-lbs at 4800-5000

Block: Chevy 010 350 block
Fully prepped by Creason Racing Engines
Bore: 4.005"
Stroke: 3.500"
Comp Ratio: 11:1
Pistons: JE custom with lateral gas ports
Rings: Sealed Power gapless .043 rings
Heads: Profiler 185 heads ported by Randy - 50 degree seats Randy can post flowZ but around 290cfm intake
Head Gaskets: Cometic
Intake: World Products Motown ported by me
Carb spacer: not allowed
Carb: Braswell 4150 type 1.75" throttle bore (Creason's dyno carb)
Cam: COMP Cam nitrided flat tappet 238/244 105LSA with Crower rockers to give just below .600" measured lift at valves
Lifters: Trend Products lifters with oil hole in foot (std .842" diameter)
Oil Pan: Milodon steel for Nova
Headers: Doug Thorley 1-5/8" into 2-1/2" collectors tri-y
.
Here's the best dyno test at the contest.
EMC2017Creason353_Dynos.jpg
.
link below to Hot Rod's article ... it has a few errors but some pictures of the teardown etc.
http://www.hotrod.com/articles/get-570- ... -pump-gas/

This comment in the article about low lift flow is absolutely wrong. Low-lift flow is NOT what we want.
"The Creason Racing team’s strategy was to focus on valve-seat profiles to enable high intake and exhaust velocity and low-lift flow while preventing reversion with the goal of creating a broad torque curve. The initial valve-seat angle is 50 degrees."


Rick
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gmrocket
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Re: EMC 2017 353ci SBC

Post by gmrocket » Sat Dec 30, 2017 3:34 pm

Great build Rick...you killed it with that big flat TQ curve.
Last edited by gmrocket on Sat Dec 30, 2017 3:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

steve cowan
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Re: EMC 2017 353ci SBC

Post by steve cowan » Sat Dec 30, 2017 3:38 pm

to rick,randy and *,
congratulations on your EMC win simply amazing
the time and effort into R and D over the course of the year leading up to EMC i suspect would be nothing short of exhausting in my opinion,to make 570 hp with a flat tappet cam as well as the rule restrictions that i read and also to peak at 6500rpm and the power does not fall off is way cool
i worked out that the min CSA is approx 2.15'' with a 195 ish runner, is that a fair assessment ?
also the other thing i am curious about is was there an issue with getting rocker geometry where you needed it with the 1.8 - 1.85 rockers or was it simple enough,
and i really like that power through a set of tri y with a 2 1/2 collector and mufflers to boot
who would of thought.......
i hope randy and * might chime in with some information about the lead up and days of the EMC,what is the atmosphere like,how are the other teams friendly i hope ??
it is all cloak and dagger type stuff
anyhow thank you rick for taking the time to share

steve c
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Walter R. Malik
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Re: EMC 2017 353ci SBC

Post by Walter R. Malik » Sat Dec 30, 2017 3:56 pm

This is real proof that although some individual parts may be deemed better in their own right ... it is definitely getting the entire combination of "right" parts working together which gets to this type end result.

Great job ...
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CGT
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Re: EMC 2017 353ci SBC

Post by CGT » Sat Dec 30, 2017 4:39 pm

steve cowan wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 3:38 pm
also the other thing i am curious about is was there an issue with getting rocker geometry where you needed it with the 1.8 - 1.85 rockers or was it simple enough,
Rockers were backset trunion which helped, but it really wasn't ideal as far as geometry. It pretty much married us to a 5/16 pushrod. The geometry would have been better with less ratio, but it just wasn't an option. Wouldve taken more unwanted duration to gain more lobe lift. And, the motor responded to every bit of lift it could be given.

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Re: EMC 2017 353ci SBC

Post by Carnut1 » Sat Dec 30, 2017 4:58 pm

Much respect. Thanks for sharing.
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Roundybout
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Re: EMC 2017 353ci SBC

Post by Roundybout » Sat Dec 30, 2017 5:15 pm

Thanks for sharing. That's a stout piece given the rules. Just curious, are the oil and coolant temps accurate?

CGT
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Re: EMC 2017 353ci SBC

Post by CGT » Sat Dec 30, 2017 5:24 pm

Roundybout wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 5:15 pm
Thanks for sharing. That's a stout piece given the rules. Just curious, are the oil and coolant temps accurate?
Yes. Cant vouch for UNOH's dyno but should be.

Casper393W
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Re: EMC 2017 353ci SBC

Post by Casper393W » Sat Dec 30, 2017 6:22 pm

Great job guys!! It goes to show what a great combination can do!

swampbuggy
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Re: EMC 2017 353ci SBC

Post by swampbuggy » Sat Dec 30, 2017 8:48 pm

Did not see any carbide burr finish anywhere in pictures i saw, what about intake manifold finish if you guys don't mind saying ? Thanks Mark, and congrats on you WIN !!!

mtrhead
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Re: EMC 2017 353ci SBC

Post by mtrhead » Sat Dec 30, 2017 9:27 pm

Great write up

Do you know at what rpm did the 390” setup start running out of steam because of those headers?

I purchased those tri-y headers late last year for my street only sbc. Looking forward to using them this spring to gain some torque versus various 1.75”headers I’ve used.

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Re: EMC 2017 353ci SBC

Post by 77cruiser » Sat Dec 30, 2017 9:53 pm

Nice job!! D shape ex ports? If so how did they fit up to the headers?
Jim

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Re: EMC 2017 353ci SBC

Post by GARY C » Sat Dec 30, 2017 10:53 pm

Good Job!

zums
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Re: EMC 2017 353ci SBC

Post by zums » Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:29 pm

What??? no low lift flow, how can that be. :lol: The build shows what thinking as opposed to robotically building or reading published bullshyt an engine is about. Well how much do you want to divulge,, by the time the valve hits .25 l/d your not far from max allowable lift so ill guess 86-87% throat, an intake lobe with more area on its back ,i know the mowtown has a little more avg csa than the super victor but a little less then the 2814 stock, what csa avreage did you end up with after porting. Would creason divulge rvk numbers, turn over tq, again good job guys, thinking about all the variables that effect how we think an engine actually breathes dynamically is alot more difficult then most people want to think about .

Tom

Rick360
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Re: EMC 2017 353ci SBC

Post by Rick360 » Sun Dec 31, 2017 12:05 am

mtrhead wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 9:27 pm
Great write up

Do you know at what rpm did the 390” setup start running out of steam because of those headers?

I purchased those tri-y headers late last year for my street only sbc. Looking forward to using them this spring to gain some torque versus various 1.75”headers I’ve used.
The peak hp rpm on the 390ci didn't really change between the 4-1 and tri-y. The tri-y helped below 5k or so and hurt above that but it didn't really nose over any sooner. They just flattened out the hp curve. The EMC score on the 390 was nearly the same between headers. The tri-Y's just happened to be the right size for the 353 and gave it the advantage.

I'd have liked to try a 4-1 with 1-5/8" and a 2.5" collector. On most headers the collectors are too big for the primaries IMO. Nobody makes smaller collector headers.

You'll like those headers on a street car.

Rick

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