Accel plug feedback/starting issue

[Walter R. Malik]

I have never experienced any more of an issue with using Accel spark plugs in place of others ... I use them a lot.

A completely wet tip on any spark plug will have trouble working correctly.

The last time an engine reacted for me the way you describe ... the timing chain jumped a tooth.
I might suspect a broken cam pin or something which changes the valve timing.

[Krooser]

When Wyrmrider donated his old Ford dually to me back in '14 it had 13 year old California gas in it... topped it off and headed east with zero fuel issues.

CHP? Now that's another story....

[cv67]

sure hope it isnt the chain! Engine only has 100 someting miles.

[Tuner]

From sitting, the O-rings have shrunk and become hard on the needles and seats. The rubber in the power valve diaphragm is probably hard too. New O-rings or new N&S assemblies will stop the flooding from the boosters. If the PV is leaking it will be crazy rich at idle but it won't drip from the boosters unless the N&S isn't holding. O-rings are 3/16" ID x 5/16" OD x 1/16" cross section.

The low temperature boiling stuff that is in the gas for easy starting will evaporate when it sits. It will probably run if you can get it started and get some heat in it.

Spray can carb claner is good starting fluid because it is usually blended of easy evaporating solvents that are high octane so it won't knock. Ether starting fluid will knock pretty hard so it isn't the best thing to use unless the weather is really cold or if carb cleaner won't make it fire up.

A while back I had situation with a car with gas that was fresh purchased but blended haywire someway so it wouldn't burn and would actually put the fire out if you started it with spray cans of anything. The fuel in the car just would not burn.

The car was a '59 TR-3 with a Pertronix conversion in the Lucas distributor and the car is "positive earth" so the young kids in the shop were sort of superstitious about the whole thing. "I don't see how it can run wired backwards" was one railbird's comment (not an employee, thankfully). LOL

The owner filled it with gas just before taking it to my friend's shop for another problem. After it was there a couple days it wouldn't start without a shot of carb cleaner to prime it. After another day or so it wouldn't start at all. The gas was going off worse every day. The plugs had soot on them you could blow off with your mouth.

Finally, after fixing the carbs and ignition for several days that had nothing wrong with either, the spark was plenty hot, running it on a can of fresh gas hanging from the hood showed us what the problem was.

Anyhow after a lot of flailing around, all it needed was actual gasoline. Whatever 'fuel' was in it smelled like gasoline but a puddle on the concrete floor would not stay lit unless you held a BIC flame in it. Like I said, the owner filled it with gas on the way to the shop and it ran when it got there, just after a couple days it turned stupid and in a couple more it wouldn't even run. I've seen bad fuel or old fuel plenty of times, but this was a new one on me, watching it get worse every day for a week until it wouldn't burn at all.

Some race fuels are blended with stuff that won't evaporate and start in cold weather but will run fine once it is started, sort of like methanol.

[cv67]

hmm, gonna do that. I put the 2 yr old gas in the truck, it runs but is a little tough to catchonce running its fine
perhaps Ill put new orings and PVs in it and see if that gas burns on the ground.

I took the carb off when I parked it put fresh gaskets on it been on the car dry since. AED 850
Cant remember what PV I put in there
makes 7-8 in around 1000 rpm 4.11s stick.
383 260/268@050 solid roller
recommended, size, what about oring for needle/seat?
Maybe thats all it would take

Have a hard time believing a new coil or?? just goes out from sitting
The wires only have a little time but are 4-5 yrs old rock hard.

[MadBill]

Most assuredly, electronic components regularly die of neglect...

[cv67]

Will tear the carb apart the floats are going beserk.

No pn on the coil think I got sold a chinese msd system
6 yrs old 100 mi summit says no replacement parts, sweet.

[cv67]

2 different sized needle/seats out there, which one?

Am using a Carter 172 mech pump, this thing runs more than 6 psi more like 7-8. Regulator needed?

[Tuner]

The Holley needle and seat O-ring is size 008, 5/16" OD x 3/16" ID s 1/16" cross section. The local hardware store should have some.

As a coincidence, I was just on the phone with someone who has a sunk float. The brass material is cracked in several places and it is full of gas. So, double check there is no fuel in the floats.

If you buy new needle and seat assemblies the .110" size should be OK, even with 7-8 psi fuel pressure.

It isn't necessary to have that much pressure, but is isn't necessary to use a FP regulator unless the pressure is over 8 psi. 4 PSI is enough if it is a steady 4 PSI at WOT.

A 6.5 PV might be OK, but I would rather use 8.5 if you don't have trouble getting one. The 6.5 comes in most common Holley packaged carb kits. The "1/2 idle vacuum" scheme is nonsense and has nothing to do with which PV is right for your (or any) engine. Your description of your engine suggests it could easily make 300 HP at half-throttle, in which case it would be a good idea to have the PV open so the A/F is right for a power mixture.

The reason idle vacuum should be disregarded for choosing PV is the vacuum will be much higher when operating the engine in the high RPM range intended for performance, and a PV with too low a number will stay closed until nearly WOT. A lean A/F is what you want for fuel economy in an engine designed and intended for economy that might only make 300 HP total, but a really powerful engine can make that at 1/2 load or less and it is usually not a good idea to run a high output performance engine lean under load. It really all depends on circumstances, passenger, tow rig or racing engine, all require specific A/F depending on conditions such as length of time at load and how much HP is being made per displacement.

I recently tuned an 850HP Holley on a 496 BBC, aluminum heads, don't know the compression ratio or cam, but it had about 8" vacuum in gear at 1000 RPM. The carb is so small for the engine's power level, at 3500-4000 RPM a 4" PV chosen by the "1/2 idle vacuum" method is closed until the throttle opening is deep in the secondary and nearly WOT. A 6.5 PV was noticeably week and soggy in mid pedal response, and a 10.5 PV woke it up to being a tire frying crazy engine.

Any coil will do to see if another changes anything. If there is spark now, I doubt another coil will be any sparkier.

[Schurkey]

The Holley needle and seat O-ring is size 008, 5/16" OD x 3/16" ID s 1/16" cross section. The local hardware store should have some.

My (very) limited experience is that the hardware store will have the right size, however, the material is un-suitable for the purpose. My generic O-rings lasted a week or two. They cold-flow, stop sealing, and need to be replaced again.

The end of my Holley needle/seat O-ring problems came when I ordered Viton O-rings.

It is a pure mystery to me why Holley doesn't sell a small quantity--six or ten--of O-rings separately. The Holley O-rings are not as nice as the Viton I bought, but they're entirely adequate. Problem is that they won't sell them without buying a bunch of other stuff (a "hardware kit") at the same time:

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hly-34-7bk

[cv67]

Thanks guys never would have guessed about the pv. are you recommending 8.5 or 10.5? Could use a little more mid pedal response as the carb/heads etc arent small for this little motor? Holley was saying 6.5 but know youre up on your game so Ill follow your lead.
x2 on coil. going to put it back in for now dont have a spare anywyas and no extra $ to throw has to be the carb.
Ill get those Orings..much as I want to drive it tomorrow Ill wait for the good stuff this is annoying. lol

[Tuner]

The Holley needle and seat O-ring is size 008, 5/16" OD x 3/16" ID s 1/16" cross section. The local hardware store should have some.

My (very) limited experience is that the hardware store will have the right size, however, the material is un-suitable for the purpose. My generic O-rings lasted a week or two. They cold-flow, stop sealing, and need to be replaced again.

The end of my Holley needle/seat O-ring problems came when I ordered Viton O-rings.

It is a pure mystery to me why Holley doesn't sell a small quantity--six or ten--of O-rings separately. The Holley O-rings are not as nice as the Viton I bought, but they're entirely adequate. Problem is that they won't sell them without buying a bunch of other stuff (a "hardware kit") at the same time:

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hly-34-7bk

O-rings for household plumbing are not suitable for gasoline.

O-rings are made of literally dozens of different rubber compounds and there are several variations of 'Viton". Another good choice, or possibly better, is Nitrile, AKA Buna-N, because it has better low-temperature tolerance and is as (or more) resistant to most solvents in gasoline. I've had good luck with the O-rings I got from the local hardware store. I asked what type rubber they were but nobody knew. Some have been in service with pump gas for two or three years with no complaint so far and we know a carb problem will get people whining in a heartbeat.

[cv67]

Tuner if this thing is making 7-8 in at idle do you recommend an 8.5 or 10?
Local place has some, wanna pick them up in the AM. Cant remember what AED put in there and cant find the sheet.
A little more PT umph wouldnt hurt.

[DaveMcLain]

Tuner if this thing is making 7-8 in at idle do you recommend an 8.5 or 10?
Local place has some, wanna pick them up in the AM. Cant remember what AED put in there and cant find the sheet.
A little more PT umph wouldnt hurt.

If the engine is making 7-8 at idle you need a 4.5 or so power valve otherwise it'll be open when its idling.

[midnightbluS10]

Cant get a remote starter on there as the headers forbid it, so its a one man deal. Will see if the auto part store has something
Feels like weak spark for sure who knows.

A cell phone with a camera works when you're by yourself.