Nikasil cylinder plating

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HeinzE
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Nikasil cylinder plating

Post by HeinzE »

One of my pet motorcycle racing engines checked out of spec for cylinder and piston wear. In the past I would replace the cast iron cylinder liner, rebore and hone and fit a new piston. The engine is bored to the largest diameter allowed, so oversize pistons are not an option. In adding up the price of a new liner and the time involved in changing it out and the bore work, It appears that it would be less expensive to have the cylinder Nikasil plated. In studying Nikasil a bit It seems that it is long lasting and durable and can retain an oil film at higher temps than cast iron, all of which sounds
pretty agreeable.
My own street bike, a 2006 Ducati Multistrada, has Nikasil bores and with over 60K on it is still running strong and doesn't use any oil.
But beyond that, I have no experience with Nikasil, especially having a cast iron liner plated. In talking with two different companies about their Nikasil plating, niether claimed it would add much in the way of performance but that the bore life would likely be many times that of a cast iron liner in the same application. Have any of you had cast iron cylinders or blocks Nikasil plated? What kind of benefit (or fault) have you experienced. I've also been told that the rings I use now, which have a chrome plated top ring and oil rails would work fine in Nikasil. Anything you've found that suggests otherwise? Would like to hear your thoughts before I pull the trigger.
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Re: Nikasil cylinder plating

Post by ProPower engines »

from what I understand the Nikasil bores are made with the silicon carbide impregnated in the bores.

Like the old Vega engines of the 70'2 that was the 1st engine in north america that used an impregnated aluminum cylinder bore using this method of manufacturing. Others like porsche and honda use the same method but to refinish the bores they need to be done only with a diamond hone. Sunnen came up with a vitrified stone to do the job but it did not really work and there was also a diamond paste compound that has been tried with some success depending on the bores surface some times yes but mostly not good success at getting the correct finish needed to seat the rings.Any Nikasil bores I have worked with were diamond honed to refinish to the next size of over bore or sleeved using a steel sleeve because of strength needed of the thin area to work with or a cast sleeve if there was room for the sleeve OD to be used.

But I have never heard of plating a bore with nikasil because it is a component that is included in the material the cylinder is cast with but plating an aluminum nikasil bore to restore its size is new one to me :D
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Re: Nikasil cylinder plating

Post by Roundybout »

Nikasil doesn't build up enough to help in your situation. What about the possibility of having a piston coated? Not sure how far you're off but some of those anti-friction coatings can add dimension that could get you there.
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Re: Nikasil cylinder plating

Post by David Redszus »

If the engine has cast iron liners, your best bet is to replace the liners with cast iron. That would allow a significant size correction if necessary. Chrome rings run well on cast iron, not so well on Nikasil.

There is a limit to the thickness that can be deposited using Nikasil, usually about .010".

Diamond stones do not hone Nikasil surfaces very well. They are useful to remove material but do not produce the proper surface finish. To hone Nikasil, a ceramic material (boron nitrate) is most suitable. It is sold by Sunnen and is called Borazon.
A plateau finish, just like cast iron, should be your finish target.
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Re: Nikasil cylinder plating

Post by jcisworthy »

Line2Line can coat a piston up to .020"

https://www.line2linecoatings.com/
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Re: Nikasil cylinder plating

Post by englertracing »

ProPower engines wrote: Sat Dec 16, 2017 1:32 pm from what I understand the Nikasil bores are made with the silicon carbide impregnated in the bores.

Like the old Vega engines of the 70'2 that was the 1st engine in north america that used an impregnated aluminum cylinder bore using this method of manufacturing. Others like porsche and honda use the same method but to refinish the bores they need to be done only with a diamond hone. Sunnen came up with a vitrified stone to do the job but it did not really work and there was also a diamond paste compound that has been tried with some success depending on the bores surface some times yes but mostly not good success at getting the correct finish needed to seat the rings.Any Nikasil bores I have worked with were diamond honed to refinish to the next size of over bore or sleeved using a steel sleeve because of strength needed of the thin area to work with or a cast sleeve if there was room for the sleeve OD to be used.

But I have never heard of plating a bore with nikasil because it is a component that is included in the material the cylinder is cast with but plating an aluminum nikasil bore to restore its size is new one to me :D
The Vega method is NOT the same as nikasil
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Re: Nikasil cylinder plating

Post by mk e »

Ferrari used it for years, they might still, not sure. My 308 had coated aluminum liners that I sent out and had re-done which returned them to original size....mostly. Originally the bore tapers smaller at the top so when it heats up its straight but i couldn't find a place that could do that so straight cold it was and seem fine.

The 348/355/360 all used steel, yes steel not iron liners that are coated. I've never personally tried to recoat one of those but have heard of it being done without issue
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Re: Nikasil cylinder plating

Post by statsystems »

You can Nikasil cast iron. It's done all the time. Call around. After the first of the year I'm doing a Can Am 500 that either needs a sleeve or Nikasil. No way am I sleeving it.
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Re: Nikasil cylinder plating

Post by pdq67 »

englertracing wrote: Sat Dec 16, 2017 4:55 pm
ProPower engines wrote: Sat Dec 16, 2017 1:32 pm from what I understand the Nikasil bores are made with the silicon carbide impregnated in the bores.

Like the old Vega engines of the 70'2 that was the 1st engine in north america that used an impregnated aluminum cylinder bore using this method of manufacturing. Others like porsche and honda use the same method but to refinish the bores they need to be done only with a diamond hone. Sunnen came up with a vitrified stone to do the job but it did not really work and there was also a diamond paste compound that has been tried with some success depending on the bores surface some times yes but mostly not good success at getting the correct finish needed to seat the rings.Any Nikasil bores I have worked with were diamond honed to refinish to the next size of over bore or sleeved using a steel sleeve because of strength needed of the thin area to work with or a cast sleeve if there was room for the sleeve OD to be used.

But I have never heard of plating a bore with nikasil because it is a component that is included in the material the cylinder is cast with but plating an aluminum nikasil bore to restore its size is new one to me :D
The Vega method is NOT the same as nikasil

Right, not the same.

From Wiki,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_2300_engine

The 2300 is a 2,287 cc (2.3 L; 139.6 cu in) inline-four engine produced by the Chevrolet division of General Motors for the 1971 to 1977 model years of the Chevrolet Vega and Chevrolet Monza. It featured a die-cast aluminum-alloy cylinder block. The high-tech block features an alloy with 17 percent silicon. During the machining process, the cylinders were etched leaving the pure silicon particles exposed providing the piston wear surface, eliminating the need for iron cylinder liners."
And I think before Chevy canned the Vega block, they sleeved them and did fine. But it was too late. They left as bad a taste in peoples mounths as ol', "scrub", did!

I might be all wet about sleeving them so please kick away.

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Re: Nikasil cylinder plating

Post by englertracing »

Someone, not naming names, just trashed my 400$ custom billet 4032 wet sleeves,
They clamped them into the boring machine badly, and ended up out of round on the bore, they stripped the plating, I think they tried again, and then once more after they decided to make a special setup for the honing machine.....
The repeated acid bath stripping reduced my diameter by 0.004" and the height of the sleeve by 0.008"
This was a 0.002" slip fit sleeve with 0.0025" protrusion above deck, now it drops into the case like a hot dog down a hall way, and rattles around......
And sits 0.006" below deck..... #-o

I was assured that they were the best plating shop, and that they have done Ferrari sleeves which are quite similar.

But they went armature hour on my stuff, and then had the balls to charge me for it :-k
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Re: Nikasil cylinder plating

Post by LSP »

Call Mark Cartlidge at Capricorn in England. He is the premier authority regarding plating cylinders, and how to properly hone them.
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Re: Nikasil cylinder plating

Post by Truckedup »

pdq67 wrote: Sat Dec 16, 2017 8:31 pm

And I think before Chevy canned the Vega block, they sleeved them and did fine. But it was too late. They left as bad a taste in peoples mounths as ol', "scrub", did!

I might be all wet about sleeving them so please kick away.

pdq67
Yes, the Vega block did get sleeves the last year or two of production and was a decent engine....From what I understand, GM committees designed the Vega then handed off the prototype to Chevy for pre production styling details...Chevy knew the engine was a loser and wanted to use a different engine design,some say the cast iron 153 from the Chevy 2. And redesigns of some details that would have prevented the quick rusting fenders.But GM wouldn't budge and the car went out the door to become a problem...
Motorcycle land speed racing... wearing animal hides and clinging to vibrating oily machines propelled by fire
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Re: Nikasil cylinder plating

Post by ProPower engines »

the last years of the Vega/Astra had the same engine used in the Chevette which was an iron block/head.
We did a few of those engines many years back but sleeved them as we seem what the other " GM approved methods" produced for cyl. finishing and the end results were just as bad as the original design. But they were hard on boring bar bits to cut the bores to sleeve them.
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Re: Nikasil cylinder plating

Post by dfarr67 »

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Re: Nikasil cylinder plating

Post by Schurkey »

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikasil

Nikasil plating is entirely different from the HYPEREUTECTIC Vega block. Both involve silicon, but the method of disbursing it is entirely different.

The Vega engine got handfuls of durability improvements including the "Dura-Bilt" program, but all cylinders were the same Reynolds A-390 material as the rest of the block.

Aftermarket "production-line" rebuilt engines were often sleeved, however.

After '77, the "Iron Duke" replaced the OHC 2300 Vega engine in the H-bodies. The Vega/Astra never used the Chevette engine, at least not in the USA. I don't make any promises for what happened in Brazil or South Africa.
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