Hydraulic rollers sbc

[F-BIRD'88]

What uou are presenting does not support your position.
It supports my position.
If you are noticing it by 6500 rpm it is starting earlier (lower rpm).

[kimosabi]

Well, F-Bird, if your position is that a too soft valvespring limits the rpm capability of a hydraulic lifter setup, you're 100% right. You do realize that goes for any application. Therefore I used my current street/strip engine as an example where I also noted I am replacing the beehives I have now for a stronger set. Did you read that, or did you only read the rpm numbers...

You have guys in this thread with way more experience than us saying that a good hydraulic lifter can and will be able to run 7500rpm.

[Newold1]

Its really important here to state that it is the camshaft profile and specs. that really control hydraulic roller lifter upper rpm (7000-7500prms)operation and that a mismatch here will still be a problem in spite of how much spring and pressure you throw at it. It takes more than just a good hydraulic lifter to operate reliably at those rpms-it takes an excellent one! Also, obviously you must pay attention to valve weights and valve train stability and weights over the nose. IT TAKES A COMPLETE A SYSTEM APPROACH ! JMHO

[kimosabi]

Its really important here to state that it is the camshaft profile and specs. that really control hydraulic roller lifter upper rpm (7000-7500prms)operation and that a mismatch here will still be a problem in spite of how much spring and pressure you throw at it. It takes more than just a good hydraulic lifter to operate reliably at those rpms-it takes an excellent one! Also, obviously you must pay attention to valve weights and valve train stability and weights over the nose. IT TAKES A COMPLETE A SYSTEM APPROACH ! JMHO

Good point I totally agree. From the camshaft to the valve and in between maybe equally important is correct valvetrain geometry.

[F-BIRD'88]

I read and appreciate every thing you posted Kimo.
Here is the problem.. Buy tge time you have chased down this
Better total systems approach $$$$$$$ you will have all new parts Tried 1-2-3 more sets of valve springs , ,, new very pricey special high rpm hr lifters new hr cam or 2 or 3 etc etc.. You and the OP will have spent 3 times the money now.

And when your oil gets a lil air trapped in it the $$$$$ hr lifters will still collapse under that higher spring load anyway.

In consistant performance.
The solid roller street setup runs consistant not effected by such things as air in the oil, allows the increased spring load
etc etc. Hits the mark the first time for a lot less $$$$$.

Noticed the dual coil valvesprings I recomended he try are from solid street roller setups.
Even the LS motors change to a dual coil type spring when chasing higher rpm and power. Many of them end up going toa solid roller setup in the end. Where high rpm withPOWER is wanted.
The ones that see the light go straight to the solid roller setup right off. Save a ton of $$$$ and hit the perf mark.
And you end up underhood a lot LESS.

yours and his hyd roller springs are mild because that is what llows hyd roller liftrrs to work and is easy on the whole hyd roller valvetrain... but rpm limited.. hyd rollers are great right up to a point (6000-6200 or so), then they become not so great... By 6500 rpm and beyond they really lay over.

Bbc's with the heavyer valvestrain is even worse.
hyd roller lifters are heavy er than solid roller lifters are.

The solid street roller setups are quiet and stay set a long time. little fuss. Much better high rpm perf.

Not as radical as a race roller setup. More spring force than a hyd roller allows, but not extreme as a race roller uses.
6800-7000 and beyond a big rpm and POWER advantage.

[Frankshaft]

I have used dozens of sets of sl930 erson/morel hyd roller lifters to 6800 with no issues.

[F-BIRD'88]

Dyno and more important drag strip test against solid roller lifters you will see what you are missing.

power ET and MPH.. and repeatable consistancy.

[67RS502]

If you don't know what youre doing then yes you will have problems and may end up throwing some $ at it.
Or you could just get with a cam guy on the lobes, lifters and springs at minimum.
Or run aggressive HR lobes or a mild Solid Roller lobes
with a good lifter = Morel, Johnson, Crane
with spring pressure around 180/450
1.6 or 1.7 rockers
and .120"+ wall P-rods instead of those wet noodles.
and watch it rpm past 7000 easy.
Why run a solid roller in a street deal?
But I'm bias that way

[wfolarry]

Have any of you tried travel limiters? They're popular in Harley motors that have some work done.

[kimosabi]

I read and appreciate every thing you posted Kimo.
Here is the problem.. Buy tge time you have chased down this
Better total systems approach $$$$$$$ you will have all new parts Tried 1-2-3 more sets of valve springs , ,, new very pricey special high rpm hr lifters new hr cam or 2 or 3 etc etc.. You and the OP will have spent 3 times the money now.

I haven't really had to chase down any issues. Springs I use now, Pac 1215, are only a set I put in there to confirm my own theory that if you spend time on the geometry with beehives, you don't really need alot of spring pressure. I did find that with correct geometry and proper pushrod length pretty much every shelf rocker is too long from pivot to tip for my valves though so the rockers are custom. Total system approach is a 10/10 in my eyes.

Another 35lb on the seat, about 50lb open and a little higher rate and I'm right where it should be. Next springs 1219x at $15 a piece. Same retainers, locks and seats. Just new springs. Then I'm done.

FWIW I've set lifter pre load ONCE on this engine before doing a base tune in the bench and throwing the engine in the car. Haven't touched valvetrain in the car. Haven't even pulled the valve covers. Cut open the oil filter for a check after break in. That's it. From what I've learned the typical "6000rpm maximum for a hydraulic roller" is a thing of the past. I built it deliberately undersprung, or close to undersprung some might say, to see for myself. That's what I do.

[F-BIRD'88]

good luck in your chase.

[Newold1]

This thread is sort of being hi-jacked in that the OP originally asked about using hydraulic roller lifters in a SBC and being able to do so reliably at 6800-7000 rpms. There are literally probably hundreds of thousands of SBC's out there using hydraulic roller lifters successfully and reving to 6800 to 7000 rpms dailey without issues. With the right camshafts, correct valve train and good quality high performance hydraulic roller lifters this is easily attained and does not really warrant the extraneous discussion and unrelated examples being rattled around on this question here.

[vortecpro]

The stuff we ran from Straub, 750/262 2.300 stainless valve, would turn 7500 through the lights so it was there some time. 516 inch conventional head, 880 HP @ 7100 RPM single 4bbl.

[swampbuggy]

VERY well said Newold1 !! and TRUE. Mark H.

[swampbuggy]

Vortecpro---would you please make your cam spec.'s a little more understandable (complete), my last engine was a 516 BBC/single BG 1050 so i am curious. Mark H.