LOW TENSION BACK TO STD TENSION OIL RINGS

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joespanova
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LOW TENSION BACK TO STD TENSION OIL RINGS

Post by joespanova »

Predict losses from switching back to a std tension ( from low ) oil ring pack using .043/.043 3mm rings. I'm after better oil control.
Small block Chevy.
I'm betting in this ring stack , not much diff.
Thanks
And yes , I've been using a vac pump ( wet sump ) 8-10" max.
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Re: LOW TENSION BACK TO STD TENSION OIL RINGS

Post by tenxal »

joespanova wrote: Wed Nov 22, 2017 5:51 pm Predict losses from switching back to a std tension ( from low ) oil ring pack using .043/.043 3mm rings.
The answer is: "It depends"....
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Re: LOW TENSION BACK TO STD TENSION OIL RINGS

Post by bigjoe1 »

All 3.0 MM rings are low tension



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Re: LOW TENSION BACK TO STD TENSION OIL RINGS

Post by joespanova »

bigjoe1 wrote: Wed Nov 22, 2017 6:25 pm All 3.0 MM rings are low tension



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Mahle offers a std tension expander for the 3MM oil ring? At least thats what the Mahle rep implied when I talked to him some months ago?
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Re: LOW TENSION BACK TO STD TENSION OIL RINGS

Post by Krooser »

The guys from Engine Masters did an a/b test... three hp difference as I recall.
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Re: LOW TENSION BACK TO STD TENSION OIL RINGS

Post by joespanova »

Krooser wrote: Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:28 pm The guys from Engine Masters did an a/b test... three hp difference as I recall.
Thats the kind of answer I was looking for...........
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Re: LOW TENSION BACK TO STD TENSION OIL RINGS

Post by dirtracr5 »

bigjoe1 wrote: Wed Nov 22, 2017 6:25 pm All 3.0 MM rings are low tension



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Incorrect.
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Re: LOW TENSION BACK TO STD TENSION OIL RINGS

Post by randy331 »

I'd look into why you have oiling issues with vacuum.

I have one with 3 mm ultra low tension oil rings without vacuum and no oiling issues. things are nice and clean in the chamber/plugs etc.
I know of others with similar set ups without vacuum.

I'm building one now that will have vacuum, it has 2 mm reduced radial width oil rails. It will be even lower. I may even put a smaller bore expander under them.

Dirtracer is right. There different tension expanders for 3 mm rings.

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Re: LOW TENSION BACK TO STD TENSION OIL RINGS

Post by joespanova »

randy331 wrote: Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:57 pm I'd look into why you have oiling issues with vacuum.
Randy
Naturally.........but why make it any harder than it has to be by trying to get a few HP at the expense of "some" oil ......I didn't say a lot , I said some.......or at least the "potential".
What I'm seeing is an oil "film" in the intake runners ( tunnel ram ) from reversion...............which got me thinking , do I even NEED low tension oil rings........at this point my mind is made up. I'm increasing oil ring tension. This , along with a change to wider lobe centers to stop or reduce reversion into intake runners / ports.
BTW .the plugs and chambers , as well as exhaust ports look good. Its the evidence
of some "film" in the ports which convinced me.
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Re: LOW TENSION BACK TO STD TENSION OIL RINGS

Post by MadBill »

I expect the second ring is already a Napier design, but if not, switching to same would likely clean up any modest oiling issues with no increase of friction.

BTW, I can't find an Engine Masters oil ring test. The best I could come up with was a Hot Rod clip comparing 5/64"/5/64"/3/16" vs. 1.2 mm/1.2 mm/3.0 mm rings. (+ 8 HP for the latter at 6,000 RPM in a 3.48" stroke 377" SBC.)
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Re: LOW TENSION BACK TO STD TENSION OIL RINGS

Post by bigjoe1 »

I do NOT agree with that last test at all- I see much more difference-- Like 20 HP on a 550 HP engine



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Re: LOW TENSION BACK TO STD TENSION OIL RINGS

Post by joespanova »

bigjoe1 wrote: Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:08 pm I do NOT agree with that last test at all- I see much more difference-- Like 20 HP on a 550 HP engine
JOE SHERMAN RACING
I had to think about this..........
You have a hell of a lot more experience with Gen 1 stuff than I do BUT , in all fairness you said all 3MM stuff is low tension , which suggests any A-B testing you've done had to be with the 5/64 or 3/16 stuff.....which no doubt would make your point , but the higher tension expander on the 3 MM stuff meaning 1 up from what I have , even THAT should only be slightly tighter than current . And slightly is good.......... :mrgreen:
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Re: LOW TENSION BACK TO STD TENSION OIL RINGS

Post by Jeff Lee »

I agree with Joe on that “test”. As I read that test, I wondered, who would go from 5/64” ring to a 1.2mm ring and NOT back-cut the 1.2mm rings for reduced radial width? Nobody. Well, except Hot Rod. And I would ad at (on a street engine) least horizontal gas ports to assert some pressure on those 1.2mm rings to the cylinder walls. And did the 5/64 rings have the same shape as the 1.2mm? I sincerely doubt it.
I forgot...did Hot Rod hone the engine between ring changes? If so, that could impact the test.
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Re: LOW TENSION BACK TO STD TENSION OIL RINGS

Post by Jeff Lee »

I was just at Total Seal yesterday and spoke to Keith Jones about some new pistons and therefore rings for my engine. They do offer different 3mm ring tensions. I have around 8# and we spoke of some that were 4#.
What one needs to be concerned about is excessive piston rock-over, absolute tight tolerance ring lands (width, depth, taper), oil ring placement (for example, stroker cranks that allow the oil ring to reveal itself at BDC).
That’s not to mention the art & science of cylinder walls.
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Re: LOW TENSION BACK TO STD TENSION OIL RINGS

Post by tenxal »

joespanova wrote: Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:15 pm.......but why make it any harder than it has to be by trying to get a few HP at the expense of "some" oil ...............which got me thinking , do I even NEED low tension oil rings........at this point my mind is made up. I'm increasing oil ring tension.
Respectfully, you're going in completely the wrong direction.
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