cam break in and 1.3 rockers

[steve cowan]

hi guys,
got 2 x questions here
# 1- i am using a set of howards 1.3 break in rockers for a 327 sbc i have nearly completed,these a dart sportsman 2 heads
just had them freshened up-crack test,new guides,new exhaust valves,seats cut,i am using comp 986-16 valve springs as recommended for comp flat tappet 240 @ 0.050 540 lift 110 lsa in at 106 icl
i am using howards EDM lifters and have the pushrod length @ 7.874 '' without a lash cap
is it recommended to use a lashcap on this setup,the valves are 11/32'' milodon intake and exhaust valves
i have a set of 5/16 pushrods that i used for mock up but will be buying a set of moly pushrods once i determine if i need lashcaps or not.
# 2 - once i have done initial breakin of flat tappet cam and all goes well (i am using comp breakin additive as well)
can i drive around with the 1.3 rockers or should i just change them out for the 1.6 - 1.5 combination
i remember a while ago where randy 331 actually raced with 1.3 rockers on the vortec head combo (i think)
any advice appriciated
steve c

[randy331]

Yes you can drive around with the 1.3 rockers on.

I didn't run the 1.3s in the car but did make several dyno pulls with them on.
It was a hyd roller engine and didn't need a cam break in, but I wanted to test the 1.3 s on it to look at a few things anyway.
Guy at the dyno shop seemed kinda puzzled about breakin rockers on a roller cam. LOL

Randy

[CamKing]

Just remember to run tighter lash, with the 1.3 rockers.
Whatever lash is on the cam card, divide it by the rocker ratio on the cam card, then multiply by 1.3

[statsystems]

I have never, in 37 years removed the inner springs or used a low ratio rocker to break in a cam. I just don't see the need for the extra work.

[steve cowan]

Randy thanks for your reply and clarification,
Mike,thanks for the valve lash tip,I was not aware of the lash change.
Statsystems,
That's very interesting,have you had a flat tappet failure on breakin?
I just figured that 325-350psi on the nose is a bit much particularly for a cast core and initial fire up is when I assume the damage is done,as in the first 10 seconds or so, I am interested to hear your particular lubricants,lash settings and start up procedure including RPM and breakin duration if you would be kind enough to share
Thanks for any feedback
Steve c

[CamKing]

I have never, in 37 years removed the inner springs or used a low ratio rocker to break in a cam. I just don't see the need for the extra work.

That's like saying
"I have never, in 37 years, worn a seat belt. I just don't see the need for the extra work."

[statsystems]

Randy thanks for your reply and clarification,
Mike,thanks for the valve lash tip,I was not aware of the lash change.
Statsystems,
That's very interesting,have you had a flat tappet failure on breakin?
I just figured that 325-350psi on the nose is a bit much particularly for a cast core and initial fire up is when I assume the damage is done,as in the first 10 seconds or so, I am interested to hear your particular lubricants,lash settings and start up procedure including RPM and breakin duration if you would be kind enough to share
Thanks for any feedback
Steve c

Around 2005-2006 I was buying lifter in bulk and I lost several cams. After that, I started checking every lifter and never bought in bulk again and stopped the issue.

IMO, what kills the cams is most of the time the guy doing the starting doesn't get it started. They crank on it and crank on it. The other issues are mechanical, such as the lifter issues I had. I've disassembled several failed engines that had lifters that didn't rotate. That's a quick death.

Other than a lifter issue, I've never had a failure. I fixed all the engines I did with lifter issues and when the lifters weren't junk they had no issues.


RPM is 2000-2500 for 20-25 minutes. I can't remember the year but when Torco released their break in oil, I started using that. Otherwise I used a high zinc oil.

I haven't used moly cam lube since probably...1998-1999. I've been using Torco cam lube in the tube. The oil doesn't get black. Lash is what the cam card calls for minus .002 for iron heads, .004-.006 for aluminum heads and all aluminum stuff gets a cold lash of .006-.008 at the most. I can't think of the last time I did an all aluminum engine with solid lifters though.

For start up I make sure their is fuel in the bowls, the fuel pump works and I set the total timing ~8-10 degrees higher than what I think it will need when it's in the car.

They should start just like its been running for years on its first fire up.

[statsystems]

I have never, in 37 years removed the inner springs or used a low ratio rocker to break in a cam. I just don't see the need for the extra work.

That's like saying
"I have never, in 37 years, worn a seat belt. I just don't see the need for the extra work."

Not the same to me. One requires me to expose myself to other irresponsible morons. When starting an engine, I'm in charge.

[CamKing]

One requires me to expose myself to other irresponsible morons.

Cam grinders
Lifter manufacturers
Heat treaters
Oil suppliers
Lifter bore machinist

[statsystems]

One requires me to expose myself to other irresponsible morons.

Cam grinders
Lifter manufacturers
Heat treaters
Oil suppliers
Lifter bore machinist

I agree. I check EVERYTHING. Except the heat treating. I haven't had any heat treat issues I know of. As for oil...I pay a lot of money for oil. And do it gladly.

[billet]

hi guys,
got 2 x questions here
# 1- i am using a set of howards 1.3 break in rockers for a 327 sbc i have nearly completed,these a dart sportsman 2 heads
just had them freshened up-crack test,new guides,new exhaust valves,seats cut,i am using comp 986-16 valve springs as recommended for comp flat tappet 240 @ 0.050 540 lift 110 lsa in at 106 icl
i am using howards EDM lifters and have the pushrod length @ 7.874 '' without a lash cap
is it recommended to use a lashcap on this setup,the valves are 11/32'' milodon intake and exhaust valves
i have a set of 5/16 pushrods that i used for mock up but will be buying a set of moly pushrods once i determine if i need lashcaps or not.
# 2 - once i have done initial breakin of flat tappet cam and all goes well (i am using comp breakin additive as well)
can i drive around with the 1.3 rockers or should i just change them out for the 1.6 - 1.5 combination
i remember a while ago where randy 331 actually raced with 1.3 rockers on the vortec head combo (i think)
any advice appriciated
steve c

One thing to keep in mind is with the low ratio break in rockers, it's going to move the pushrod up towards the intake manifold a pretty fair amount. Sometimes the edge of the intake port will require the push rod to need to move away from the port or it will rub, so many times I've had to use adjustable guide plates just to use the break in rockers on some heads even with 5/16th push rods. Just something you will need to check out and even using the adjustable guide plates the rocker tip can start getting close to going off the side of the valve once you got the pushrod to clear the intake port. So do some examining there before you just throw them on and go.

[steve cowan]

thanks for replies guys,
billet,
i have a set of comp adjustable guide plates and i had my machine shop mill out pushrod slots on the cylinder heads because i am using 1.6 rockers on the intakes only.
has anyone got some advice on lashcaps
do i need them ?
what brand and thickness would be required,i am sure i read here a while back someone wearing out lashcaps real quick
on my 383 sbc xeldyne titanium valves comp solid roller 680 lift 600psi over the nose streeter no lash caps used but they would be hardened tip valves i assume,it was recommended to me lashcaps not required on the 383 combo
and while i think of it - CAMKING mike, do you have any issue grinding and sending camshafts and valve train parts to brisbane AUSTRALIA,i am confident that you service all around the world but just for my future reference,if you read this thanks

[Geoff2]

Like Steve,
I am in Australia. For decades here, we have had FT lifters refaced because of the high cost of new ones.
[ Steve, send them to Clive Cams, Melbourne ].
Since they are the same hardness right through, they can be re-faced 2 or 3 times. If you do not want to wipe your FT cam lobes, find a set of factory lifters [ or older lifters that were DEFINITELY US made ] & have them re-faced. If you want to waste your money, buy expensive oil or oil additives, because oil is not the problem. I have a Crower flyer which states they sell lifters with 64-65RC hardness or others that are 55-59RC hardness. Maybe that translates to: you can choose American quality or Chinese quality, either the one in the east or down south...
I have cam catalogs that go back to the 70s; none ever had any reference to lifter hardness, only in recent years with all the crap lifters around.