LS3 Carbed build

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Rowdy Yates
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Re: LS3 Carbed build

Post by Rowdy Yates » Mon Oct 29, 2018 10:34 pm

Yea all this is fake internet stuff I'm lying about as well as the 5.3 aluminum block sitting in my garage wanting a re-sleeve by TSP or Steve @ RED = 440+ cid...Some day. Just lies.

steve316
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Re: LS3 Carbed build

Post by steve316 » Mon Oct 29, 2018 10:59 pm

All I can say is, hope you feel better.

Rowdy Yates
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Re: LS3 Carbed build

Post by Rowdy Yates » Mon Oct 29, 2018 11:10 pm

Feel the same..... Guy says I'm a liar so what's the best approach. Prove he's wrong that simple.

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Re: LS3 Carbed build

Post by slo-svt » Mon Oct 29, 2018 11:59 pm

Rowdy Yates wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:33 pm
Got Everything just needs to be assembled. Ran into some legal stuff.... But to answer the question I can say for fact I've had guys who've had builds that were behind mine ...That were very similar helped somewhat with info... Go to the dyno and make what I said it would. Flying's 418 was a prime example...
Stated it would make 710 to 705 went to the dyno 708. Told him a solid roller with 8000 Rpm would make 800 went to the dyno 812. If you've looked over Ever build on Ls1tech & yellowbullet and I have. I can basically look at a combo, know the compression and Cam duration and intake used and get a very close ball park #. I love cylinder heads! Again I love cylinder heads.
Let me get on my home computer and give you the build info. Predicted to make 750 at around 7500 with the Ls3 top end and 800 -8200 with Ls7 heads that I've had Darin Morgan shrink the exhaust valve along with port work.

I am confused now #-o . Let me get this straight. I originally asked if you did any real world testing and you responded "Can you read? I have a 408 with Ls3 heads and Ls7 heads. Facts are facts no matter where they come from." The only problem is you haven't mentioned this 408 in this thread so how would I have read it. Maybe I can't read because what I'm taking away from this quote is this engine that you have all that experience with isn't assembled and all you knowledge is in fact internet (ls1tech and yellowbullet) based like I originally asked. Also in the first post CGT asked for predictions. Lets hear yours for this ls3. Everything you said you need is in this thread.
Forgiveness is between you/your engine and God. It's my job to arrange the meeting.

Rowdy Yates
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Re: LS3 Carbed build

Post by Rowdy Yates » Tue Oct 30, 2018 12:42 am

Well let me look it over brother from what I know..... With 250 + duration and 14+ compression on a 370 ish engine with small details around 710+ still or about 7800+ that's off the top of my head with a solid roller & I'm a lover . Didn't read the read the entire thread but I will now...later to late. What type of gas used helps. Also with ported or unported heads. The build I showed about a E85 370 with Ls3 heads would be pretty close just have to dial a few things back one of which hydraulic vs solid roller = minus HP. A solid roller needs about 6-8 degrees to go the same Rpm as the hydraulic and I think the build listed used a 250ish LLSR. Once you've seen or know what cam duration does *with a given crank size you know the Rpm at which peaked power will be made. Lsa tells me if your bringing it in early or looking for HP @ the end aka .... 115+ lsa. Unported heads I figure 660 - 670. Ported heads 700ish +With race gas.. That's not reading the entire building. Seen you asked what I think. Think I know of another build even closer with track and dyno time. There all the Same!

Rowdy Yates
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Re: LS3 Carbed build

Post by Rowdy Yates » Tue Oct 30, 2018 1:13 am

Between these 2 I'll get a better number after reading the entire thread with the simulator.

https://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamometer- ... 0-e85.html

https://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/show ... p?t=449281

CGT
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Re: LS3 Carbed build

Post by CGT » Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:41 am

Rowdy Yates wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 12:42 am
Also with ported or unported heads
Rowdy Yates wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 12:42 am
Once you've seen or know what cam duration does *with a given crank size you know the Rpm at which peaked power will be made.
Rowdy Yates wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 12:42 am
Lsa tells me if your bringing it in early or looking for HP @ the end
Rowdy Yates wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 12:42 am
Unported heads I figure 660 - 670. Ported heads 700ish
I appreciate you trying to contribute, but your posts and answers come off as very generic. I would like to keep it more technical, rotating torque, ring packs, gas ports, what "porting" consisted of, not just "ported heads" etc...I would prefer to talk more in valve events, than so and so's 250° cam etc. Get the idea? Thanks for the links. I've seen them before, I assume none of them are your builds. SO..
"How or Y do you think I get all this $hit, I read all of you all builds and desktop dyno them with all the correct info and I've got your build."

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Re: LS3 Carbed build

Post by Rowdy Yates » Wed Oct 31, 2018 4:31 am

Kinda late but do you know any head porters .....some have proven results. Talking and messages can get questions answered. Cost with listed flow results. Frankenstein, Advanced Induction, D. Morgan, Texas Speed & Performance. All a google search away with details. I've had heads done thru private messages because I believe in who's doing the work. Because of there results.

It's late so you have a Cam with 258 degrees duration using as Hyd. roller. The 370 build uses 258 degrees duration just with a solid roller. Similar crank size so we know a given Rpm with 258 degrees of duration. Also the solid roller will typically be behind on Intake duration. 4-6 degrees. You'll be over 8k. On Cam'ing events I call it in. With listed numbers - head intake /exhaust flow ratio, Rpm wanted, gear, car weight, trans. ...... One stop shopping when dealing with good people.

You could have 720 + with ported heads with race gas or e85. Unported heads would net a 20-30 HP loss. You'll need Intake plenum work...... With spacer for peak HP. That 370 build may have done better with a better header and working vacuum pump. 740ish. So you'd be roughly 20- HP using the hydraulic roller 720 ish with ported heads/ intake work and 680-690 unported. There all the same.

Ring packs... I used Total Seals gap less ring that are made for my piston ring size. The stuff you read about what some guys use cost 1200 for rings.... SAM tech Ls7 Copo series NA ring set.

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Re: LS3 Carbed build

Post by randy331 » Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:53 pm

Rowdy Yates wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 4:31 am
Cost with listed flow results.
That's all you need.
Run that info through a cost vs flowZ program to get the cost to flow ratio factor and your done.

Look at your bank account to see how far up the cost to flowZ ratio factor chart you can buy, and order your heads !!

Randy

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Re: LS3 Carbed build

Post by Rowdy Yates » Thu Nov 01, 2018 4:38 am

Call and talking helps decide who to choose. Ask all the? Wanted. I'm in Houston so Texas is my play ground.... Greg G. C. Frank D. Morgan Slick Rick, SAM tech, Naiser, Nickens besides Uncle runs a shop old Comp Eliminator guy used to race against R. Coleman(champion many times over)back in the day. Good guy Coleman....Runs the Camaro that went from 9 to 8's with more cubic inches and worked over TFS Ls 245 cathedral heads by Greg.

http://rehermorrison.com/product/cnc-ls ... der-heads/

http://advancedinduction.com/LSX/AiLSx2 ... 21Head.php

https://www.texas-speed.com/p-1388-prc- ... rting.aspx
Last edited by Rowdy Yates on Thu Nov 01, 2018 4:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

Rowdy Yates
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Re: LS3 Carbed build

Post by Rowdy Yates » Thu Nov 01, 2018 4:52 am

Certain combinations add up with attention to details. Not hindering air is priority #1 intake / Carb. - TB are the first things to hinder air. Intake work for a given build, port match, plenum work etc.... . Work your way through the other 3 strokes of a engine with detail you will have a happy engine. Everything has its order. You purchase something to help or dictate the next purchase. You buy a Cam only after knowing what we're dealing with for Intake /exhaust ratio as to have enough exhaust duration to help with scavenging. Dealing with a poorer flowing exhaust may want more duration. You won't know that until you decide what to do with the heads.... With flow ratios ported or unported. Everything has order.



I'm very picky and research and talk before a purchase of any part with manufacturers or service wanted. Anythings possible Who would've thought Lifters would be mads just because I asked. Johnson bushed hydraulic Lifters.

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Re: LS3 Carbed build

Post by GARY C » Thu Nov 01, 2018 10:30 am

Rowdy Yates wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 4:52 am
Certain combinations add up with attention to details. Not hindering air is priority #1 intake / Carb. - TB are the first things to hinder air. Intake work for a given build, port match, plenum work etc.... . Work your way through the other 3 strokes of a engine with detail you will have a happy engine. Everything has its order. You purchase something to help or dictate the next purchase. You buy a Cam only after knowing what we're dealing with for Intake /exhaust ratio as to have enough exhaust duration to help with scavenging. Dealing with a poorer flowing exhaust may want more duration. You won't know that until you decide what to do with the heads.... With flow ratios ported or unported. Everything has order.



I'm very picky and research and talk before a purchase of any part with manufacturers or service wanted. Anythings possible Who would've thought Lifters would be mads just because I asked. Johnson bushed hydraulic Lifters.
You do know Randy331 and CGT build engines and do all their own work, including porting and cam events and won 2017 EMC beating out BES?

FYI few engine builders use I/E ratio for picking cams any more.
Please Note!
THE ABOVE POST IN NO WAY REFLECTS THE VIEWS OF SPEED TALK OR IT'S MEMBER AND SHOULD BE VIEWED AS ENTERTAINMENT ONLY...Thanks, The Management!

slo-svt
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Re: LS3 Carbed build

Post by slo-svt » Thu Nov 01, 2018 10:38 am

Rowdy Yates wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 4:38 am
Rowdy have you considered applying for a job at SAM. You could replace the curriculum with something completely internet based. Internet based meaning rather than lectures, you could run through other peoples build threads. Then for homework they could go the deepest depths in cyber space and present their findings of other peoples builds to share with the class, meanwhile never learning anything about actual engine development. At graduation they could receive certificates of achievement in "The Google Search Program". I think you would be well suited for a program such as this. Just something to consider.

P.S. I doubt the intended recipient gets to read this so Don if you so concerned with keeping the peace why don't you moderate the people spouting useless information and posting links to 20 build threads from other sites they had nothing to do with on peoples real build threads. (the ones that include real testing and real numbers that aren't fluffed to sell another book)
Forgiveness is between you/your engine and God. It's my job to arrange the meeting.

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Re: LS3 Carbed build

Post by Rowdy Yates » Thu Nov 01, 2018 10:49 am

Didn't know that Gary....... Thanks for the needed update. Happy for there success.. So CGT knows. Also on Cam so how does a person know how much exhaust duration is needed without knowing the head Intake / exhaust flow ratio. I know for darn sure your not typically seeing 258/260 duration Ls3 or rectangular heads cams because of the great exhaust. Cams are made to match heads. I've had several cams done and Know of None that didn't want head flow to make sure as to get the duration and overlap correct.


No need to go to SAM tech... Engines are all the same...For a given engine with certain parts you will make a avg number. It's the small details, crank scrappers... etc. There's no pie in the sky or your the first one in the world to have a build. Not hating.

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Re: LS3 Carbed build

Post by GARY C » Thu Nov 01, 2018 11:08 am

Rowdy Yates wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 10:49 am
Didn't know that Gary....... Thanks for the needed update. Happy for there success.. So CGT knows. Also on Cam so how does a person know how much exhaust duration is needed without knowing the head Intake / exhaust flow ratio. I know for darn sure your not typically seeing 258/260 duration Ls3 or rectangular heads cams because of the great exhaust. Cams are made to match heads. I've had several cams done and Know of None that didn't want head flow to make sure as to get the duration and overlap correct.


No need to go to SAM tech... Engines are all the same...
Different people use different methods, flow is usable but port cross section, air speed, valve size, valve seat angle, header tube diameter, step or no step to some extent all play into it but few cam companys ask any of those other questions.

I have a program as do many others that will get you very close but at the end of the day it takes dyno time and testing and real world experience. If you ever listen to D Morgans audio interview he says the same as most high level engine builders, you can not develop an exhaust on a flow bench beyond making sure it's quiet, you could change the CFM by large amount and it would have very little to no effect on power and could hurt it, he gives a basic size peramiter of 105 to 108% of valve size for ex port exit.

EDIT... Exhaust Port Design

I have bad news. You can not design an exhaust port on a flow bench the way you do an intake port. If you’re designing exhaust ports to flow the most air possible, you’re destroying the engines ability to blow the cylinder down and exhaust properly.
http://darinmorgan.net/frank-talk-about-flow-numbers/

Lets not clog this thread anymore. you could start a thread asking questions if you wish.
Please Note!
THE ABOVE POST IN NO WAY REFLECTS THE VIEWS OF SPEED TALK OR IT'S MEMBER AND SHOULD BE VIEWED AS ENTERTAINMENT ONLY...Thanks, The Management!

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