late model ford head - so what heck is this?????

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jred
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late model ford head - so what heck is this?????

Post by jred »

late model v6 head Its from ford direct injection carbon deposits under intake valve no compression in 1 hole vale being held open by carbon build up.. was taken off by garage and partly cleaned up but he couldn't get the valves to seal and brought it over to us.... over 1.5 intake valve but what's up with the shelf under the valve almost 1/3 of the port covered up...
some new secret thing going on?????
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Last edited by speedtalk on Fri Nov 17, 2017 10:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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englertracing
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Re: so what heck is this?????

Post by englertracing »

That there is a ski jump. A really big one. They put that there to encourage tumble. It forces all of the flow out of the long side. I've seen that before it was actually posted on here. But it was probably 1/3 that pronounced.

I wonder how much horsepower that is robbing and I wonder how much low RPM Power it's adding. I also wonder how much that helps with emissions. If that was mine I don't know if I would be able to keep my grinder away from it.
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Re: so what heck is this?????

Post by MadBill »

I wonder how many guys started typing "fuel shear.." before they remembered the DI part. :D
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Re: so what heck is this?????

Post by Dave Koehler »

Have seen something like that on an old stationary industrial engine.
On this one I would want to see another head or picture of same to confirm it is not a mass production screw up.
Surely some magazine made a note of it when it first hit the market.
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Re: late model ford head - so what heck is this?????

Post by Erland Cox »

I just had a DI Mazda Skyactiv head in that looked like that.
I took as much as possible of it out and raised flow a lot.
Car hasn´t been dynotested yet so I have no results.
I did nit tuch rhe intake port, only the bowl and chamber.
The valves had an ugly recess around them

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Re: so what heck is this?????

Post by peejay »

englertracing wrote: Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:22 pm That there is a ski jump. A really big one. They put that there to encourage tumble. It forces all of the flow out of the long side. I've seen that before it was actually posted on here. But it was probably 1/3 that pronounced.

I wonder how much horsepower that is robbing and I wonder how much low RPM Power it's adding. I also wonder how much that helps with emissions. If that was mine I don't know if I would be able to keep my grinder away from it.
The biggest problem the automakers face is not being able to make peak power, it's being able to be the most efficient at making zero to about 30hp. That is where the engines spend the majority of their time and that is where you need to focus in order to get good economy and emissions.
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Re: late model ford head - so what heck is this?????

Post by Carnut1 »

Design a nice high flow cylinder head and then block a portion of the bowl to introduce turbulence to improve low end torque. Why don't 4v head designers add some swirl to a design that favors tumble? DV adds swirl to a 4v on his Polyquad patented design with good results. I always thought the ports should be cast so swirl and tumble was produced. Low end would improve and top end would not be changed much if at all.
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Re: late model ford head - so what heck is this?????

Post by Newold1 »

Many of the new DI engines are having this problem. Remember on a DI engine there is no fuel mixed in the air in the intake tract, no injector spray, etc. to clean the areas behind seats and the backside of the intake valves. The entire intake tract is strictly dry air. This is something those overly brilliant automotive engineers forgot to put into the mix of their designs and engines. There is a slight to moderate reversion of burned gases back into the intake tract which builds up at the seat throat and on the backsides of the intake valves which run hotter in a DI engine without any fuel mix in the intake tract to cool them. Several manufacturers have recalls and warranty fixes up the Kazoo for this problem!! #-o
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Re: late model ford head - so what heck is this?????

Post by Cougar5.0 »

This is bizarre, just yesterday I was wondering if anybody had ever done such a thing where they blocked off the short side exactly the way they have done. My mind is officially blown.
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Re: late model ford head - so what heck is this?????

Post by jred »

picture #3 if you look down the port the silver line at the bottom of the port is NOT part of the head its the edge of the cradle of my sunnen seat and guide machine sorry .. I looked down the other ports and they were all the same as the port that you see in the picture,, the shelf of the head is so close that my sunnen cutter with the inserts would have hit it so I had to used the old style cutter and it just missed the shelf used vsc04045 and it cleared.. would have liked to have this head for a while longer and would have put it on the flowbench for some numbers..
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Re: late model ford head - so what heck is this?????

Post by ProPower engines »

It could very well be a mazda head. They seem to power alot of the later model ford vehicles. And with good reason as this type of design is not seen in the N/american manufactures production lines.

Back when we still had the wrecking yard we seen tons of Ford small Ranger pu's etc. that used the Mazda power plants. As a matter of fact lots of different Mazda vehicles used the exact same block assembly with changes made to how the cam timing was done oil pan intake and a couple other small differences but wrecked mazda's were worth a ton for parts but the engines always seemed to be transplanted into Ranger PU's cause the local dealer's would not do any valve timing related repairs just R+R the complete engine.
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Re: late model ford head - so what heck is this?????

Post by peejay »

Cougar5.0 wrote: Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:42 pm This is bizarre, just yesterday I was wondering if anybody had ever done such a thing where they blocked off the short side exactly the way they have done. My mind is officially blown.

https://www.speed-talk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=38864
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Re: late model ford head - so what heck is this?????

Post by naukkis79 »

It's a very good port shape. It's directs air where it wants to go and minimizing flow diversion on port. It flows much better on actual engine than in flow bench.

As original Cosworth papers from 1966 states, with tumble port you use much higher valve lift than what max port flow needs, that with port directional shape directs flow to other half of intake valve and other half generates vacuum which accelerates in cylinder flow tumble, which both increases VE and helps with combustion. That ski-jump greatly helps in cylinder tumble while sacrificing low lift flow. That port needs just minor detail fixing while keeping original port shape.
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Re: late model ford head - so what heck is this?????

Post by mag2555 »

It's a crutch to make up for the fact that they are now committed to a 4 valve head , yet the average power and fuel mileage they are shooting for could have been had with a much cheaper to produce 2 valve head!

But what car shopper these days would be interested in only a 2 valve per cylinder motor if it's not a V8 , right?
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Re: late model ford head - so what heck is this?????

Post by hoffman900 »

mag2555 wrote: Sat Nov 18, 2017 6:46 am It's a crutch to make up for the fact that they are now committed to a 4 valve head , yet the average power and fuel mileage they are shooting for could have been had with a much cheaper to produce 2 valve head!

But what car shopper these days would be interested in only a 2 valve per cylinder motor if it's not a V8 , right?
Uh, what? This doesn’t make any sense. Please tell us how a 2 valve head would have made more average power and fuel mileage? :lol:

The comment insinuating engineers are fools for DI is also laughable.
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