Ignition Needs for 13 to 1 E headed E85 Pontiac

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CraigG.
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Ignition Needs for 13 to 1 E headed E85 Pontiac

Post by CraigG. » Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:37 pm

Hey Everybody,

I have a 455 Pontiac with E heads and 12.5 - 13 to 1 and E85. I have MSD 6AL, Billet Dist, Blaser 2 coil and Firecore wires with NGK's #7 gapped .028 to .030 - Ignition locked with rotor phasing adjusted.

Issue is hard to start when cold less than 75 with no heat in the motor and I wonder if it needs MORE - BIGGER Ignition?

Thanks Again, Craig

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Re: Ignition Needs for 13 to 1 E headed E85 Pontiac

Post by scubasteve231 » Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:01 am

Is the mechanical/vacuum advance locked out? If so then that explains it. You need a start retard box. MSD used to make one but I still see quite a few floating around on ebay. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/msd-8982

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Re: Ignition Needs for 13 to 1 E headed E85 Pontiac

Post by Circlotron » Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:11 am

CraigG. wrote:
Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:37 pm
Issue is hard to start when cold less than 75 with no heat in the motor
Do you mean hard to fire or hard to crank over?

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Re: Ignition Needs for 13 to 1 E headed E85 Pontiac

Post by tresi » Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:18 am

Have you tried cranking the engine without the ignition on and then switching the ignition on once the engine is turning and has oil pressure?

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Re: Ignition Needs for 13 to 1 E headed E85 Pontiac

Post by cgarb » Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:33 am

Just give it a shot of pump gas out of a spray bottle before you try and start it on the cold mornings...no problems.

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Re: Ignition Needs for 13 to 1 E headed E85 Pontiac

Post by Geoff2 » Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:40 am

Use the proper MSD E core coil designed for use with the 6AL, #8253. Canister coils are for tractors...

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Re: Ignition Needs for 13 to 1 E headed E85 Pontiac

Post by John Wallace » Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:25 am

I would do as cgarb suggests.

:)

With E85, the alcohol content makes it too lean at colder temps.
Needs a 'boost' to get fired.

:)
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Pontiac Power RULES !
www.wallaceracing.com

CraigG.
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Re: Ignition Needs for 13 to 1 E headed E85 Pontiac

Post by CraigG. » Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:33 am

Hey Guys - all responses are good and yes - I have the start retard, a little gas squirt, mechanical advance locked with the rotor properly phased.

Do you think that the MSD E coil would be better over the blaster 2 or the plugs needing more gap - bigger box, adequate for my motor - 650 - 675 HP?
Thanks, Craig

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Re: Ignition Needs for 13 to 1 E headed E85 Pontiac

Post by mag2555 » Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:19 am

Your going to need more than a little squirt of gas if the Carb has no choke , your gonna need to get the Plenum floor wet!

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Re: Ignition Needs for 13 to 1 E headed E85 Pontiac

Post by pamotorman » Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:02 am

after pumping the gas wait 10/15 seconds till the gas vaporizes before trying to start the car. I found this works on most engines with no choke

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Re: Ignition Needs for 13 to 1 E headed E85 Pontiac

Post by cgarb » Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:30 pm

A guy that first showed me how to run a methanol car used to pump the carb a few shots of methanol out of the squirters then turn the motor over with the ignition off and wait about a minute, turn the switch on and it would fire right off.

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Re: Ignition Needs for 13 to 1 E headed E85 Pontiac

Post by CraigG. » Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:40 pm

Hey Guys, Also, What happens is that it floods easily on cold start - so I am careful not to pump too much but will experiment with more fuel and waiting the 15 seconds ideas.
I think that they are - all good ideas

A good question: What is a good gap for E85 and the NGK's #7?
Thanks Again, Craig

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Re: Ignition Needs for 13 to 1 E headed E85 Pontiac

Post by MadBill » Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:49 pm

With a good ignition system like yours, even with the high CR you could experiment with bigger gaps; maybe jump to 0.060" just to see what it does and then go from there.
In many regions, commercial "E85" gets dialed-down to 75% (maybe less) in winter to aid cold starts.
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Re: Ignition Needs for 13 to 1 E headed E85 Pontiac

Post by naukkis79 » Sat Oct 14, 2017 5:27 am

E85 will need plenty of ignition advance at cold starts. With mechanical distributors set enough advance at cold start means that starter won't turn engine over when hot.

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Re: Ignition Needs for 13 to 1 E headed E85 Pontiac

Post by AMXstocker1 » Mon Oct 16, 2017 8:34 am

i can tell you our 13.1 427 did not like a start retard e85 likes alot of initial timing. we run our timing locked at 38 degrees. not saying thats right for you i would just lock your timing out at what ever the engine liked on gas if your getting kick back then i would try what some have suggested and turn the motor with starter and the flip on the ignition. also e85 normally will not ideal cleanly until the engine warms up, and it likes to be over 170 degrees. We use either a squirt er bottle with some pump gas or just a can of starter fluid to get it started on a cold mornings under 60 degrees. we've fond if going to the track thats normally only needed for the first start of the day and after that its fine.

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