351 windsor

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351 windsor

Post by gvx » Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:54 pm

I have rebuilt a lot of stock SBF's but not much more than a mild cam. Need advise on the goods and bads of OEM blocks I have a 79 block and a 1992 block. goal is 360- Plus HP and a lot of torque on a moderate budget. Will one of these be sufficient? Not sure if the 92 is a OEM roller haven't disassembled yet?

Heads? Will the OEM F.I. emission heads or 2V heads off the 1979 make 360 Hp easily? or should I spend a $200 on some GT40 cores?

Goal is 360 H.P. and a lot of torque. 9.4-1 compression and 4600 peak with 16" vacuum. Pondering on a few more H.P. if I decide to make a little more lopy idle.

Any advise will be greatly appriciated.
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Re: 351 windsor

Post by travis » Thu Sep 07, 2017 4:03 am

There is minimal difference between the 2 blocks, and both are good to well above the power levels you are looking at. Use the one that will clean up with less overbore...these things can get sketchy once you exceed.040" over. Factory roller blocks are F4 castings (late '93 and later) that may or may not have come with a factory roller cam...yours are flat tappet blocks. The factory bolt in cam retainer makes these super easy to convert to a roller cam with link bar lifters.

As far as heads, the '79 block "should" have D8 castings, while the '92 should have E7TE's. Both are very similar...biggest difference is the D8's have a 69-70cc chamber and seem to be a bit more detonation prone than the 62-64cc chambered E7's. From about mid '77 up, 302's and 351's shared the exact same heads, with the only difference being the 351's 1/2" head bolt holes. Valve sizes are 1.78/1.46, and your going to have to work them to get much past 300-325hp. GT40's (non P heads) are a better base to work from but still need work to get past about 340-350hp. GT40X heads are relatively cheap at around $1200/pair, with excellent quality parts, and will make 400+ with a mild cam right out of the box.

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Re: 351 windsor

Post by Carnut1 » Thu Sep 07, 2017 4:36 am

Gvx, give those blocks a good once over looking for cracks from cam tunnel. I know the roller blocks had an issue there. I have done E7's, gt40's and gt40p's the p's have the best chambers but are limited on how large an intake you can use due to plug boss. They also require specific headers to fit. Gt40's fit the bill nicely here similar chamber to E7's but much nicer designed ports. On my "Build a Lightning Bronco?" thread I did a set of gt40 and had them flowed they peaked at 216 cfm and 156 cfm which would fit the bill on this build. Thanks, Charlie
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Re: 351 windsor

Post by Carnut1 » Thu Sep 07, 2017 4:49 am

20150825_174144.jpg
Just two years ago I did these gt40's, mostly cuttered a bit of sand roll action near quench. I used a bit more aggressive burr on intake. Mostly straight forward porting, nothing fancy and mild ssr work and some chamber deshrouding, stock valves. Thanks, Charlie
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Re: 351 windsor

Post by gvx » Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:30 am

Charlie How big can I go with the intake is the 1.85 the limit before shrouding becomes an issue or can you take it to a 1.94?
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Re: 351 windsor

Post by David Vizard » Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:39 am

travis wrote:There is minimal difference between the 2 blocks, and both are good to well above the power levels you are looking at. Use the one that will clean up with less overbore...these things can get sketchy once you exceed.040" over. Factory roller blocks are F4 castings (late '93 and later) that may or may not have come with a factory roller cam...yours are flat tappet blocks. The factory bolt in cam retainer makes these super easy to convert to a roller cam with link bar lifters.

As far as heads, the '79 block "should" have D8 castings, while the '92 should have E7TE's. Both are very similar...biggest difference is the D8's have a 69-70cc chamber and seem to be a bit more detonation prone than the 62-64cc chambered E7's. From about mid '77 up, 302's and 351's shared the exact same heads, with the only difference being the 351's 1/2" head bolt holes. Valve sizes are 1.78/1.46, and your going to have to work them to get much past 300-325hp. GT40's (non P heads) are a better base to work from but still need work to get past about 340-350hp. GT40X heads are relatively cheap at around $1200/pair, with excellent quality parts, and will make 400+ with a mild cam right out of the box.
Travis,
Picked up a number of valuable little pointers here for my book.

Appreciate that.
Thanks,
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Re: 351 windsor

Post by gvx » Thu Sep 07, 2017 10:00 am

Is this accurate information?
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Re: 351 windsor

Post by SupStk » Thu Sep 07, 2017 12:57 pm

Not much to add here but pay careful attention to the main webs in the block. #3 is the one most likely to crack around the bolt holes since the thrust cut makes that portion narrow. This is in endurance applications and more power than you are talking of.
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Re: 351 windsor

Post by DaveMcLain » Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:27 pm

I don't have too much to add to the discussion but if you're swapping parts around between the two engines remember that the engine with the one piece rear main seal has a smaller oil slinger on the back of the crank compared to the two piece engine. This can hit the inside of the block if you swap the two.

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Re: 351 windsor

Post by Carnut1 » Thu Sep 07, 2017 2:39 pm

gvx wrote:Charlie How big can I go with the intake is the 1.85 the limit before shrouding becomes an issue or can you take it to a 1.94?
I have never done one of them up to a 1.94" valve. I would think with decent porting they should go 230 cfm with 1.85" valve. Thanks, Charlie
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Re: 351 windsor

Post by HotRodRay » Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:10 pm

The 95 351W is the only year of factory roller cams.

For heads I suggest hooking up with some Fox Mustang/ racers' boards, and pick up some good used aftermarket heads. Putting a few rejuvination bucks in those beats wasting time on factory iron.

Remember... the Fox racing crowd has gone to LS engines. There has to be tons of Fox 5.0 parts lurking in shop corners.

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Re: 351 windsor

Post by kcengines » Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:28 pm

How about a set of the gt40p heads?

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Re: 351 windsor

Post by Walter R. Malik » Thu Sep 14, 2017 11:50 pm

I have read that no one has mentioned the iron M2 "marine" heads. They are weird in that they have an intake port very similar to iron GT40 heads but the exhaust port like a D8 head.
They come with early 351W valve sizes.

They are 2 bar heads which designates the casting bars on the ends of the heads like 3 bar and 4 bar GT40 & P heads.

Ford Racing used to offer a version with stainless valves and their A50 valve springs.
They are around ... if you can find them.
I know where 20 sets are right at this moment ... Total Performance in Clinton Township, Michigan has them available.
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Re: 351 windsor

Post by travis » Fri Sep 15, 2017 1:29 am

Walter R. Malik wrote:I have read that no one has mentioned the iron M2 "marine" heads. They are weird in that they have an intake port very similar to iron GT40 heads but the exhaust port like a D8 head.
They come with early 351W valve sizes.

They are 2 bar heads which designates the casting bars on the ends of the heads like 3 bar and 4 bar GT40 & P heads.

Ford Racing used to offer a version with stainless valves and their A50 valve springs.
They are around ... if you can find them.
I know where 20 sets are right at this moment ... Total Performance in Clinton Township, Michigan has them available.
I've never seen or even heard of that one. There was also an E0 head that from what I can gather was used in industrial and marine applications as well. The Jasper reman I pulled out of my '83 F150 had these...they look just like a D8

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Re: 351 windsor

Post by gvx » Fri Sep 15, 2017 7:55 pm

Plans have been modified a little bit 400 horsepower 451 foot pounds of torque 5200 RPM Peak 5700 shift.

Have heads selected that's a new question is will OEM rods be appropriate for this level performance or should I upgrade to scat rods Pistons are about 550 g.
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