First time out with new 412Reher Morrison looking for opinions

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F-BIRD'88
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Re: First time out with new 412Reher Morrison looking for opinions

Post by F-BIRD'88 » Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:11 am

This car will go faster with 2 carbs. It will also want to trap at a higher rpm if with 2 carbs. Which means the big cam becomes a better big cam for this car.
It all comes down to how high you are willing to buzz it thru the traps. Our 406 (18 deg) had flat tops. Had lower cr 12:1 ish and needed a lot less timing.
(Combustion was very good)
Made more power too. The carB was ALot BIGGER.
$$The custom step headers$$$ w/merge collectors on this car were a factor.

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Re: First time out with new 412Reher Morrison looking for opinions

Post by CGT » Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:09 pm

To get 14:1 in a 412 doesn't take a big dome usually. I'd keep the timing wherever it mph's best regardless.
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, He will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man"

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Re: First time out with new 412Reher Morrison looking for opinions

Post by VegaJohn » Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:17 pm

CGT wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:09 pm
To get 14:1 in a 412 doesn't take a big dome usually. I'd keep the timing wherever it mph's best regardless.
Yeah I will play with it more this season. With the timing backed off the et didn’t drop as much as the mph did.

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Re: First time out with new 412Reher Morrison looking for opinions

Post by JoePorting » Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:33 pm

I'd try a more conservative cam, maybe 260@.050 with around .650 lift. Big cams can create all sorts of valve train issues. Maybe Mike can suggest something better.
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Re: First time out with new 412Reher Morrison looking for opinions

Post by GARY C » Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:38 pm

VegaJohn wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:17 pm
CGT wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:09 pm
To get 14:1 in a 412 doesn't take a big dome usually. I'd keep the timing wherever it mph's best regardless.
Yeah I will play with it more this season. With the timing backed off the et didn’t drop as much as the mph did.
I have heard others say to time for et and jet for mph. my guess is they go hand in hand.
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Re: First time out with new 412Reher Morrison looking for opinions

Post by Steve.k » Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:46 pm

My experience with timing is usually see small gains on track with more timing than on dyno at peak power. I think the extra timing pulls you out of gate a little harder only to drop power near the other end. Could this all be fixed with convertor swap or gear changes? Likely

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Re: First time out with new 412Reher Morrison looking for opinions

Post by RevTheory » Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:48 pm

I think I'd make sure all of my ducks were in a row before I started questioning Reher-Morrison's engine combo. Make sure the convertor is right for the combo, the rubber flywheels comment was good idea, timing and jetting, collector length, etc.

Building a good drag race engine is their job. Getting that engine down the track is the customer's job. I'm sure you'll find the sweet spot. Just keep methodically plucking away at it.

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Re: First time out with new 412Reher Morrison looking for opinions

Post by VegaJohn » Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:03 pm

RevTheory wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:48 pm
I think I'd make sure all of my ducks were in a row before I started questioning Reher-Morrison's engine combo. Make sure the convertor is right for the combo, the rubber flywheels comment was good idea, timing and jetting, collector length, etc.

Building a good drag race engine is their job. Getting that engine down the track is the customer's job. I'm sure you'll find the sweet spot. Just keep methodically plucking away at it.
It’s replys like that, that keep me on forums like this. I appreciate all constructive ideas from you guys and will ignore the odd guy who is just here to be a dick. I do know my collectors are only 3” and they call for 3.5”. There’s lots of little places that I can pick away at to improve this car. I don’t have much money into the whole thing and overall I’m happy with how it goes. If some of these guys on here saw how it pulls away from a lot of 572s etc they would really be disappointed in those big engine also. Our racing conditions must be close to what Denver has to deal with.

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Re: First time out with new 412Reher Morrison looking for opinions

Post by randy331 » Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:19 pm

VegaJohn wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:03 pm

It’s replys like that, that keep me on forums like this. I appreciate all constructive ideas from you guys and will ignore the odd guy who is just here to be a dick. I do know my collectors are only 3” and they call for 3.5”. There’s lots of little places that I can pick away at to improve this car. I don’t have much money into the whole thing and overall I’m happy with how it goes. If some of these guys on here saw how it pulls away from a lot of 572s etc they would really be disappointed in those big engine also. Our racing conditions must be close to what Denver has to deal with.
I took it you weren't the original owner of this engine ?? Otherwise, yes deal with the engine builder.

Once the engine changes hands,...all bets are off as to what happened or got changed on it.
I've seen it before.

Had a guy stop by the shop last night. Said he changed valve covers and the engine blew up when he started it again. Dropped a valve. Best I can make of the situation is,.. he bolted a valve cover on that is too short and somehow got it bolted down and the valve cover was holding some valves open???
He's mentioned me building him an engine. Some situations you avoid.

So, if vegajohn didn't buy it directly from RM,.. who knows. May not have ever been thier engine and someone put thier valve covers on it and sold it as such.

Randy

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Re: First time out with new 412Reher Morrison looking for opinions

Post by F-BIRD'88 » Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:21 pm

Here we have lots of air. (Especialy at night or in the fall). 600ft elevation..

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Re: First time out with new 412Reher Morrison looking for opinions

Post by VegaJohn » Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:37 pm

randy331 wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:19 pm
VegaJohn wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:03 pm

It’s replys like that, that keep me on forums like this. I appreciate all constructive ideas from you guys and will ignore the odd guy who is just here to be a dick. I do know my collectors are only 3” and they call for 3.5”. There’s lots of little places that I can pick away at to improve this car. I don’t have much money into the whole thing and overall I’m happy with how it goes. If some of these guys on here saw how it pulls away from a lot of 572s etc they would really be disappointed in those big engine also. Our racing conditions must be close to what Denver has to deal with.
I took it you weren't the original owner of this engine ?? Otherwise, yes deal with the engine builder.

Once the engine changes hands,...all bets are off as to what happened or got changed on it.
I've seen it before.

Had a guy stop by the shop last night. Said he changed valve covers and the engine blew up when he started it again. Dropped a valve. Best I can make of the situation is,.. he bolted a valve cover on that is too short and somehow got it bolted down and the valve cover was holding some valves open???
He's mentioned me building him an engine. Some situations you avoid.

So, if vegajohn didn't buy it directly from RM,.. who knows. May not have ever been thier engine and someone put thier valve covers on it and sold it as such.

Randy
You are correct about me not being the original owner. Technically I’m owner number 3 but owner 2 never ran the engine I know him. I bought it from him as a freshened engine as that’s what he was told from original owner that took engine to local speed shop. Owner 2 picked up the engine from this shop wrapped in plastic. The engine was not freshened they as far as I can tell installed new comp gold rockers and expensive valve cover gaskets. As far as the engine not being a R/M piece it is 100 percent. From the cnc’d intake and heads and the sheer plate dart block pan etc. Even reher Morrison plug wires it’s the same as the picture on their website. I got the build sheet that is from reher Morrison and sent with it to original owner. He bought it in 2008 and had it shipped to Edmonton. I pulled the pan and bearing are date coded late 07. Nothing has been changed from original. I did not get the dyno sheet. Just found and old thread on here where Darren Morgan stated on the 412 super series engine gas ported pistons lead to a 705hp output over 680isb without.

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Re: First time out with new 412Reher Morrison looking for opinions

Post by Steve.k » Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:53 pm

IMG_3572.PNG
Heres the day today. That's excellent da for this track. Cool spring day as summer arrives we will be 4500-5000
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Re: First time out with new 412Reher Morrison looking for opinions

Post by ClassAct » Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:09 pm

VegaJohn wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:17 pm
CGT wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:09 pm
To get 14:1 in a 412 doesn't take a big dome usually. I'd keep the timing wherever it mph's best regardless.
Yeah I will play with it more this season. With the timing backed off the et didn’t drop as much as the mph did.


MPH is horsepower. Any tuning you do that slows the MPH costs power. I never look at ET when tuning. Ever. You jet,time and tune for MPH and then fix the drivetrain and chassis to make the ET match the MPH.

I've made many cars faster taking away power. The owner and/or tuner were either too arrogant or stupid to understand their cars were junk. Not saying your car is junk. I'm saying tune the engine for MPH and then fix the car to get the ET back.

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Re: First time out with new 412Reher Morrison looking for opinions

Post by JoePorting » Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:21 pm

randy331 wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:19 pm
VegaJohn wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:03 pm

It’s replys like that, that keep me on forums like this. I appreciate all constructive ideas from you guys and will ignore the odd guy who is just here to be a dick. I do know my collectors are only 3” and they call for 3.5”. There’s lots of little places that I can pick away at to improve this car. I don’t have much money into the whole thing and overall I’m happy with how it goes. If some of these guys on here saw how it pulls away from a lot of 572s etc they would really be disappointed in those big engine also. Our racing conditions must be close to what Denver has to deal with.
I took it you weren't the original owner of this engine ?? Otherwise, yes deal with the engine builder.

Once the engine changes hands,...all bets are off as to what happened or got changed on it.
I've seen it before.

Had a guy stop by the shop last night. Said he changed valve covers and the engine blew up when he started it again. Dropped a valve. Best I can make of the situation is,.. he bolted a valve cover on that is too short and somehow got it bolted down and the valve cover was holding some valves open???
He's mentioned me building him an engine. Some situations you avoid.

So, if vegajohn didn't buy it directly from RM,.. who knows. May not have ever been thier engine and someone put thier valve covers on it and sold it as such.

Randy

The new valve cover was probably binding on the pushrods. Very few people bother to check valve cover to pushrod clearance. Modern SBC heads move the pushrod into the valve cover pad, especially with shaft systems.
Joe Facciano

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Re: First time out with new 412Reher Morrison looking for opinions

Post by F-BIRD'88 » Mon Apr 15, 2019 4:42 pm

Look at the uncorrected barometric pressure.
That plus the small carb (that probabily aint right ) and it will be timing hungry. Especially with exhaust recycle.
(Also from too small a carb)
I bet the timing box is loosing 4 degrees from idle timing at 6000 rpm.
Some cars like more timingvto launch than at high speed.
Thats what a high speed retard is for.
Can use it top of 1st gear or in high gear as needed.
Some like it right after launch....

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