First time out with new 412Reher Morrison looking for opinions

General engine tech -- Drag Racing to Circle Track

Moderator: Team

Post Reply
Steve.k
Expert
Expert
Posts: 934
Joined: Sat May 28, 2016 10:41 am

Re: First time out with new 412Reher Morrison looking for opinions

Post by Steve.k » Sun Apr 14, 2019 10:02 pm

Well arthur you sound like some of the guys that hang at track. No I'm not turning on John I respect him. He bought the engine on a limited budget and then it turned out it wasn't what it was supposed to be in terms of health. Then he replaced a lot of stuff that was supposed to be good. After a short season of working on widdled it down to where it is. All with very little cash. And another hit at our track no air! So you can bark all you like but until you show us what exactly needs to be changed like some did here none of your yap means a thing! Johns gaining and he always will.

VegaJohn
Member
Member
Posts: 143
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2015 1:18 am
Location: Central Alberta

Re: First time out with new 412Reher Morrison looking for opinions

Post by VegaJohn » Sun Apr 14, 2019 10:23 pm

Just to clear things up Artie. I have long arms and I’m not a tight wad I just race with in my means while supporting my family. What do you run other than your internet fingers and riddle poems?

Follow the money
The truth hurts
Enjoy

Arthur
Member
Member
Posts: 101
Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2005 6:21 pm
Contact:

Re: First time out with new 412Reher Morrison looking for opinions

Post by Arthur » Sun Apr 14, 2019 10:35 pm

Glad you’re still buddys
Enjoy

AMXstocker1
Pro
Pro
Posts: 268
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2016 5:39 pm
Location: Oklahoma City, Oklahoma

Re: First time out with new 412Reher Morrison looking for opinions

Post by AMXstocker1 » Sun Apr 14, 2019 11:25 pm

What do you shift at that converter seems a little tight for healthy small block i'd think you would want it looser, forgive me if i'm wrong on a glide but with 3 speeds you usually want with in about 800 rpm of your shift point and on your combo i would guess youd want a convert in the 6500rpm range if not higher assuming your shifting inbetween 7300 and 8000 a 700hp 412 should rpm well.

VegaJohn
Member
Member
Posts: 143
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2015 1:18 am
Location: Central Alberta

Re: First time out with new 412Reher Morrison looking for opinions

Post by VegaJohn » Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:00 am

AMXstocker1 wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 11:25 pm
What do you shift at that converter seems a little tight for healthy small block i'd think you would want it looser, forgive me if i'm wrong on a glide but with 3 speeds you usually want with in about 800 rpm of your shift point and on your combo i would guess youd want a convert in the 6500rpm range if not higher assuming your shifting inbetween 7300 and 8000 a 700hp 412 should rpm well.
I’m shifting it at 7200 sometimes I’ve tried 7000. Doesn’t change my ET much. 5600 is what Reher Morrison spec’d for the engine. I need to track down an actual dyno sheet and get a converter built if I want it to be the best it can.

rustbucket79
Guru
Guru
Posts: 1585
Joined: Fri Apr 07, 2006 8:23 pm

Re: First time out with new 412Reher Morrison looking for opinions

Post by rustbucket79 » Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:09 am

You would be miles ahead to get YOUR engine dyno'd to get real world numbers (both measured and corrected) for your converter manufacturer and you can learn what the engine wants for timing and whatnot, as well as finding the proper shift point and trap RPM.

I've tested a handful of big name USA race engines and they always come up short on our dyno. :^o

VegaJohn
Member
Member
Posts: 143
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2015 1:18 am
Location: Central Alberta

Re: First time out with new 412Reher Morrison looking for opinions

Post by VegaJohn » Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:23 am

rustbucket79 wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:09 am
You would be miles ahead to get YOUR engine dyno'd to get real world numbers (both measured and corrected) for your converter manufacturer and you can learn what the engine wants for timing and whatnot, as well as finding the proper shift point and trap RPM.

I've tested a handful of big name USA race engines and they always come up short on our dyno. :^o
Yeah the actual number they rate it at doesn’t bother me anyways. They never make what they say. I like my timeslip as my horsepower measuring tool. You are right I should dyno it to get figures for a converter builder. My budget says no lol

Arthur
Member
Member
Posts: 101
Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2005 6:21 pm
Contact:

Re: First time out with new 412Reher Morrison looking for opinions

Post by Arthur » Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:03 am

VegaJohn wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:23 am
rustbucket79 wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:09 am
You would be miles ahead to get YOUR engine dyno'd to get real world numbers (both measured and corrected) for your converter manufacturer and you can learn what the engine wants for timing and whatnot, as well as finding the proper shift point and trap RPM.

I've tested a handful of big name USA race engines and they always come up short on our dyno. :^o
Yeah the actual number they rate it at doesn’t bother me anyways. They never make what they say. I like my timeslip as my horsepower measuring tool. You are right I should dyno it to get figures for a converter builder. My budget says no lol
Said with compassion-
Seek medical help
Your not stable
Cherio

GARY C
Guru
Guru
Posts: 5040
Joined: Tue May 14, 2013 10:58 pm

Re: First time out with new 412Reher Morrison looking for opinions

Post by GARY C » Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:09 am

Arthur wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:03 am
VegaJohn wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:23 am
rustbucket79 wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:09 am
You would be miles ahead to get YOUR engine dyno'd to get real world numbers (both measured and corrected) for your converter manufacturer and you can learn what the engine wants for timing and whatnot, as well as finding the proper shift point and trap RPM.

I've tested a handful of big name USA race engines and they always come up short on our dyno. :^o
Yeah the actual number they rate it at doesn’t bother me anyways. They never make what they say. I like my timeslip as my horsepower measuring tool. You are right I should dyno it to get figures for a converter builder. My budget says no lol
Said with compassion-
Seek medical help
Your not stable
Cherio
Dudley, I think you are the one that should seek medical attention.

Lucky Charms
Please Note!
THE ABOVE POST IN NO WAY REFLECTS THE VIEWS OF SPEED TALK OR IT'S MEMBER AND SHOULD BE VIEWED AS ENTERTAINMENT ONLY...Thanks, The Management!

KnightEngines
Guru
Guru
Posts: 2006
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 8:51 pm
Location: Australia

Re: First time out with new 412Reher Morrison looking for opinions

Post by KnightEngines » Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:16 am

You have too much tyre & due to that you have to run too much gear.
Smaller, lighter tyres & taller gear to get back to a drive ratio that'll see you cross at 7500rpm or so will be faster.
As it sits you're wasting power in converter slip & accelerating large rubber flywheels.

If you need 40 deg of timing in a sbc then something is screwed up, that thing is not burning nice, it's a lazy kero lamp.
Could be cam, could be chambers, could be intake charge quality, could be exhaust reversion, could be compression, could be many things and/or a combination of some or all.
If you want it proper fast it needs to come apart for a looksee by someone who knows what to look at & for.

Being restrained by budget forget about making more power, concentrate on wasting less power.

You could also try a lower octane fuel, if that thing is burning that slow lower octane may tell you something.

VegaJohn
Member
Member
Posts: 143
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2015 1:18 am
Location: Central Alberta

Re: First time out with new 412Reher Morrison looking for opinions

Post by VegaJohn » Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:28 am

KnightEngines wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:16 am
You have too much tyre & due to that you have to run too much gear.
Smaller, lighter tyres & taller gear to get back to a drive ratio that'll see you cross at 7500rpm or so will be faster.
As it sits you're wasting power in converter slip & accelerating large rubber flywheels.

If you need 40 deg of timing in a sbc then something is screwed up, that thing is not burning nice, it's a lazy kero lamp.
Could be cam, could be chambers, could be intake charge quality, could be exhaust reversion, could be compression, could be many things and/or a combination of some or all.
If you want it proper fast it needs to come apart for a looksee by someone who knows what to look at & for.

Being restrained by budget forget about making more power, concentrate on wasting less power.

You could also try a lower octane fuel, if that thing is burning that slow lower octane may tell you something.
It’s 14-1 comp with large domes. 38-42 degrees is straight from Reher Morrison. I agree that it seems high. But when I back it off it slowed down. What others have told me is the large dome is slowing ignition requiring more advance. The tires are large but I run them tubeless and these Centerlines are super light rims. The whole rim and tire combo is quite light. The high 1.76 first gear hurts me more than anything I think. I should really try a 3 speed trans. We just bracket race anyways so absolute blazing ETs aren’t really needed. I’m just trying to stretch this thing as far as it can go.

CGT
Guru
Guru
Posts: 1617
Joined: Sun May 10, 2009 12:29 pm

Re: First time out with new 412Reher Morrison looking for opinions

Post by CGT » Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:42 am

KnightEngines wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:16 am
If you need 40 deg of timing in a sbc then something is screwed up, that thing is not burning nice, it's a lazy kero lamp.
Could be cam, could be chambers, could be intake charge quality, could be exhaust reversion, could be compression, could be many things and/or a combination of some or all.
My opinion is the cam could be responsible for most all that you mentioned. Seems way way out to lunch to me for a 7000rpm 23 deg 420 inch sbc. I would almost bet its got some reversion issues/intake charge quality. That would up the timing requirements in itself. I can't see the current cam being better than something 20° shorter...anywhere in that cars rpm range.

OP. Whats the bottom side of your carb look like, intake, runners etc. Are they blackened?
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, He will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man"

VegaJohn
Member
Member
Posts: 143
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2015 1:18 am
Location: Central Alberta

Re: First time out with new 412Reher Morrison looking for opinions

Post by VegaJohn » Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:53 am

CGT wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:42 am
KnightEngines wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:16 am
If you need 40 deg of timing in a sbc then something is screwed up, that thing is not burning nice, it's a lazy kero lamp.
Could be cam, could be chambers, could be intake charge quality, could be exhaust reversion, could be compression, could be many things and/or a combination of some or all.
My opinion is the cam could be responsible for most all that you mentioned. Seems way way out to lunch to me for a 7000rpm 23 deg 420 inch sbc. I would almost bet its got some reversion issues/intake charge quality. That would up the timing requirements in itself. I can't see the current cam being better than something 20° shorter...anywhere in that cars rpm range.

OP. Whats the bottom side of your carb look like, intake, runners etc. Are they blackened?
It has a Reher Morrison anti reversion plate under the carb. Carb is always clean.

VegaJohn
Member
Member
Posts: 143
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2015 1:18 am
Location: Central Alberta

Re: First time out with new 412Reher Morrison looking for opinions

Post by VegaJohn » Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:58 am

My cam is the 410-110 I can’t find the @50 and advertised figures. The tuning chart is for their 427 my 412 uses all identical parts except crank stroke difference.
D21A7E27-9BE4-4191-91FE-01BAD60DA397.png
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

F-BIRD'88
Guru
Guru
Posts: 6665
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 6:56 pm
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: First time out with new 412Reher Morrison looking for opinions

Post by F-BIRD'88 » Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:01 am

If you are setting the spark timing at idle and it is locked then the real timing will be a bit less at the operating rpm. (5600 to 7000+) Agree about the piston dome effect. And the potential of the other mentioned effects on spark timing.
Try and change gears and tire diameters out before thinkin of changeing the $$$ Trans first gear ratio. $$$
The higher the effectice gear and trap rpm the better the converter will work. (And the better a new 6000+ stall will work too)
If this car was heavier weight (3000+++#) I'd say 3 speed trans. But its not. Its nice and light weight. The 2 speed is fine but will work best when given all the gear (and or short tire) it wants. It wants what it wants.

Our car the 2 speed was fine but the 3speed was better.
Our car was ALot HEAVIER. This car also liked the shorter tire. Even tho it was built for the bigger tires.
The shorter tires were much better.

Post Reply