First time out with new 412Reher Morrison looking for opinions

General engine tech -- Drag Racing to Circle Track

Moderator: Team

Post Reply
F-BIRD'88
Guru
Guru
Posts: 6665
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 6:56 pm
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: First time out with new 412Reher Morrison looking for opinions

Post by F-BIRD'88 » Sat Apr 13, 2019 11:12 am

Your lil Vega/Astra launchin sky high on the Wheelie bars reminds me of Buddy's 406cid 18 deg SBC Nova we did years ago. Your car is a lot lighter.

Steve.k
Expert
Expert
Posts: 934
Joined: Sat May 28, 2016 10:41 am

Re: First time out with new 412Reher Morrison looking for opinions

Post by Steve.k » Sat Apr 13, 2019 1:17 pm

That car is too quick john. I have a nice 500 cfm 2 barrel that will help with launch. :hello2: :hello2: :hello2: :hello2: :hello2:

F-BIRD'88
Guru
Guru
Posts: 6665
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 6:56 pm
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: First time out with new 412Reher Morrison looking for opinions

Post by F-BIRD'88 » Sat Apr 13, 2019 2:02 pm

I have a perposal for you. Instead of running that nice new R&M 412 on nitrous and a tunnel ram why not build a simple inexpensive Very basic 10:1 cr 355 or 383 for that.
Keep it real basic. Something that you can assemble and do the maintance yourself, in your garage.
800 850 hp on the spray. 530- 550 hp N/A.
Chev block, cast crank 5.7" rod Forged flat tops nothin fancy at all.
355 or 383.
E Bay Tunnel Ram 2x 650 eddy carbs. Ported chev heads. (Carnut1) eg ported 083.. One stage NOS or Nitrous Express direct port nitrous system. "Fogger" Iskenderian or Crane off the shelf flat tappet racing cam. 7500 rpm.
If you do hurt it. Yank it out and fix it.
Keep it real simple and low cost.
Can race on premimum 92 octane N/A or. Mild NOS
10:1 cr use 110+ race gas for heavy doses of NOS→
You will have a ton of fun. You built it. You tuned it.
It will owe you little nothing. It will go scary fast.
We'll call it . "The lil " ChEaP A$$" Mouse That Roared"
At 800 Juiced HP the 355-383 will run 122 mph in 1/8 mi.
The gears are fine, the converter is fine.

Keep the R&M 412 AS IS with the dominator and 4500 manifold.

Arthur
Member
Member
Posts: 101
Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2005 6:21 pm
Contact:

Re: First time out with new 412Reher Morrison looking for opinions

Post by Arthur » Sat Apr 13, 2019 6:01 pm

Observations:
Too much gearing(tire predicated)
Heads inefficient
Cam is off
Make the best of it
5.7 as a minimum package if sorted
Enjoy

VegaJohn
Member
Member
Posts: 143
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2015 1:18 am
Location: Central Alberta

Re: First time out with new 412Reher Morrison looking for opinions

Post by VegaJohn » Sat Apr 13, 2019 10:09 pm

Arthur wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 6:01 pm
Observations:
Too much gearing(tire predicated)
Heads inefficient
Cam is off
Make the best of it
5.7 as a minimum package if sorted
Enjoy
I’ve never heard of Reher Morrison building junk. They heads are CNC ported by them and the cam is spec’d By them also. I may have misquoted the figures slightly but the cam part number is a 410-110. The gearing will be too deep for spray I know that but perfect for N/A when you consider my 1.76 first gear. My results after switching from 4.88s to 5.67s also proved it. That advice was from Big Joe himself. With our bad air I would be more than happy with a 5.7. I don’t expect that even with a tunnel ram.

VegaJohn
Member
Member
Posts: 143
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2015 1:18 am
Location: Central Alberta

Re: First time out with new 412Reher Morrison looking for opinions

Post by VegaJohn » Sat Apr 13, 2019 10:12 pm

F-BIRD'88 wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 2:02 pm
I have a perposal for you. Instead of running that nice new R&M 412 on nitrous and a tunnel ram why not build a simple inexpensive Very basic 10:1 cr 355 or 383 for that.
Keep it real basic. Something that you can assemble and do the maintance yourself, in your garage.
800 850 hp on the spray. 530- 550 hp N/A.
Chev block, cast crank 5.7" rod Forged flat tops nothin fancy at all.
355 or 383.
E Bay Tunnel Ram 2x 650 eddy carbs. Ported chev heads. (Carnut1) eg ported 083.. One stage NOS or Nitrous Express direct port nitrous system. "Fogger" Iskenderian or Crane off the shelf flat tappet racing cam. 7500 rpm.
If you do hurt it. Yank it out and fix it.
Keep it real simple and low cost.
Can race on premimum 92 octane N/A or. Mild NOS
10:1 cr use 110+ race gas for heavy doses of NOS→
You will have a ton of fun. You built it. You tuned it.
It will owe you little nothing. It will go scary fast.
We'll call it . "The lil " ChEaP A$$" Mouse That Roared"
At 800 Juiced HP the 355-383 will run 122 mph in 1/8 mi.
The gears are fine, the converter is fine.

Keep the R&M 412 AS IS with the dominator and 4500 manifold.
Those engine is far from new. It was new in 2008. I got the build sheet with it. It wasnt used that much but probably should be freshened. New it was 14k US. I got it for $7500 Canadian so like $4500 US lol. So I can’t really build even what you spec’d above for less.

VegaJohn
Member
Member
Posts: 143
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2015 1:18 am
Location: Central Alberta

Re: First time out with new 412Reher Morrison looking for opinions

Post by VegaJohn » Sat Apr 13, 2019 10:24 pm

F-BIRD'88 wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 10:31 am
Question: Will your car fit a 33.5" slick?
(Thinkin for NOS → down the road)...:-)
Adding 100 to 150 Horsepower...
120 mph 1/8 th... 7300 rpm trap..
You can dial that +/- as you like....
The tunnel ram is the one on eBay again. The original top has been cut off so they can get in there and do the tops of the runners and they weld it back on. Was a common practice from my research. As far as the 33 tire I will just put 4.88s back in for spray. Tires are too expensive up here to have 2 sets and they wouldn’t fit anyways. With the 9” I can have ratios changed in 20mins

Steve.k
Expert
Expert
Posts: 934
Joined: Sat May 28, 2016 10:41 am

Re: First time out with new 412Reher Morrison looking for opinions

Post by Steve.k » Sat Apr 13, 2019 11:39 pm

Arthur wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 6:01 pm
Observations:
Too much gearing(tire predicated)
Heads inefficient
Cam is off
Make the best of it
5.7 as a minimum package if sorted
Enjoy
I race with vegajohn nearly every other weekend. Car is nasty quick and one thing he left out is our DA is nearly 4500 ft at best.

Arthur
Member
Member
Posts: 101
Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2005 6:21 pm
Contact:

Re: First time out with new 412Reher Morrison looking for opinions

Post by Arthur » Sun Apr 14, 2019 12:39 am

VegaJohn wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 10:09 pm
Arthur wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 6:01 pm
Observations:
Too much gearing(tire predicated)
Heads inefficient
Cam is off
Make the best of it
5.7 as a minimum package if sorted
Enjoy
I’ve never heard of Reher Morrison building junk. They heads are CNC ported by them and the cam is spec’d By them also. I may have misquoted the figures slightly but the cam part number is a 410-110. The gearing will be too deep for spray I know that but perfect for N/A when you consider my 1.76 first gear. My results after switching from 4.88s to 5.67s also proved it. That advice was from Big Joe himself. With our bad air I would be more than happy with a 5.7. I don’t expect that even with a tunnel ram.
At your race weight 600 gets you 5.7 @ 660
Your setup is extremely inefficient
Facts are painfull for most
Enjoy

VegaJohn
Member
Member
Posts: 143
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2015 1:18 am
Location: Central Alberta

Re: First time out with new 412Reher Morrison looking for opinions

Post by VegaJohn » Sun Apr 14, 2019 12:41 am

Arthur wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 12:39 am
VegaJohn wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 10:09 pm
Arthur wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 6:01 pm
Observations:
Too much gearing(tire predicated)
Heads inefficient
Cam is off
Make the best of it
5.7 as a minimum package if sorted
Enjoy
I’ve never heard of Reher Morrison building junk. They heads are CNC ported by them and the cam is spec’d By them also. I may have misquoted the figures slightly but the cam part number is a 410-110. The gearing will be too deep for spray I know that but perfect for N/A when you consider my 1.76 first gear. My results after switching from 4.88s to 5.67s also proved it. That advice was from Big Joe himself. With our bad air I would be more than happy with a 5.7. I don’t expect that even with a tunnel ram.
At your race weight 600 gets you 5.7 @ 660
Your setup is extremely inefficient
Facts are painfull for most
Enjoy
Thank you for your constructive banter. Your insights have really helped me here

Steve.k
Expert
Expert
Posts: 934
Joined: Sat May 28, 2016 10:41 am

Re: First time out with new 412Reher Morrison looking for opinions

Post by Steve.k » Sun Apr 14, 2019 12:48 am

Arthur wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 12:39 am
VegaJohn wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 10:09 pm
Arthur wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 6:01 pm
Observations:
Too much gearing(tire predicated)
Heads inefficient
Cam is off
Make the best of it
5.7 as a minimum package if sorted
Enjoy
I’ve never heard of Reher Morrison building junk. They heads are CNC ported by them and the cam is spec’d By them also. I may have misquoted the figures slightly but the cam part number is a 410-110. The gearing will be too deep for spray I know that but perfect for N/A when you consider my 1.76 first gear. My results after switching from 4.88s to 5.67s also proved it. That advice was from Big Joe himself. With our bad air I would be more than happy with a 5.7. I don’t expect that even with a tunnel ram.
At your race weight 600 gets you 5.7 @ 660
Your setup is extremely inefficient
Facts are painfull for most
Enjoy
Explain in detail where he should go. Just remember he has no air where he's at.

F-BIRD'88
Guru
Guru
Posts: 6665
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 6:56 pm
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: First time out with new 412Reher Morrison looking for opinions

Post by F-BIRD'88 » Sun Apr 14, 2019 3:26 am

Might want to correct the net engine power based on MPH to dyno standard corrected air operating condition
60F 29.92" 0 humidity. Sea level air.
This will show what the car would run if at sea level.
So others with big opinions have a standard reference.
The thinner air makes a big difference.

At high elevation @3000+ ft I'd be wantin to build for supercharged power.
You're doing great.

F-BIRD'88
Guru
Guru
Posts: 6665
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 6:56 pm
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: First time out with new 412Reher Morrison looking for opinions

Post by F-BIRD'88 » Sun Apr 14, 2019 3:39 am

One way to max the performance of a N/A engine that has to operate in air that is less dense (higher elevation) is to allow it to breath as deep as possible.
This is where multi carburation on a very efficient intake helps. Make the most of the situation you got.
2x750's on a tunnel ram. 2x 750's on a big single 4 bbl racing intake. + agressive engine compression ratio.
Make the induction system as un-restrictive as possible.

In the thin air getting the biggest cfm thru 8 efficient t venturi will out perform 4 big venturi. 2x4's will be better.
This will help you make the most N/A net engine power possible.

F-BIRD'88
Guru
Guru
Posts: 6665
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 6:56 pm
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: First time out with new 412Reher Morrison looking for opinions

Post by F-BIRD'88 » Sun Apr 14, 2019 4:17 am

My math says that at 6.18 @112 car perf in your air,
If you were to run in dyno standard corrected air at sea level the car would run 5.92@ 117

In the real world a N/A engine @altitude, operates in UN corrected air.
This is why raw uncorrected dyno data and the local weather conditions that yiu both dyno and race with, matter.

F-BIRD'88
Guru
Guru
Posts: 6665
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 6:56 pm
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: First time out with new 412Reher Morrison looking for opinions

Post by F-BIRD'88 » Sun Apr 14, 2019 4:32 am

I dispute your $(can) to $(us) cost difference.
The dollar exchange is 30%. Not 60%.

Post Reply