First time out with new 412Reher Morrison looking for opinions

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KnightEngines
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Re: First time out with new 412Reher Morrison looking for opinions

Post by KnightEngines » Tue Apr 16, 2019 12:33 am

You don't know what the "speed shop" did with it, you can't even be sure it's got 14:1 comp & cam could be anything.

Pull it down, freshen it, mill the heads down as far as you can without screwing them up then work out what piston crown volume you need for 14:1, either mill down the existing pistons or get new ones & rebalance.
Swap the cam out for something like 268/274 on 108 centres, in on 104 icl, .450/.420 lobe lift, run with 1.7/1.7 rockers.
Obviously check piston to valve & spring suitability.

That will probably cost you less than a ram & carbs & see better results in et.


Or you could just throw $ at stuff that isn't going to help & come back asking for more things to throw $ at that won't help.

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Re: First time out with new 412Reher Morrison looking for opinions

Post by Arthur » Tue Apr 16, 2019 3:09 am

VegaJohn wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:37 pm
randy331 wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:19 pm
VegaJohn wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:03 pm

It’s replys like that, that keep me on forums like this. I appreciate all constructive ideas from you guys and will ignore the odd guy who is just here to be a dick. I do know my collectors are only 3” and they call for 3.5”. There’s lots of little places that I can pick away at to improve this car. I don’t have much money into the whole thing and overall I’m happy with how it goes. If some of these guys on here saw how it pulls away from a lot of 572s etc they would really be disappointed in those big engine also. Our racing conditions must be close to what Denver has to deal with.
I took it you weren't the original owner of this engine ?? Otherwise, yes deal with the engine builder.

Once the engine changes hands,...all bets are off as to what happened or got changed on it.
I've seen it before.

Had a guy stop by the shop last night. Said he changed valve covers and the engine blew up when he started it again. Dropped a valve. Best I can make of the situation is,.. he bolted a valve cover on that is too short and somehow got it bolted down and the valve cover was holding some valves open???
He's mentioned me building him an engine. Some situations you avoid.

So, if vegajohn didn't buy it directly from RM,.. who knows. May not have ever been thier engine and someone put thier valve covers on it and sold it as such.

Randy
You are correct about me not being the original owner. Technically I’m owner number 3 but owner 2 never ran the engine I know him. I bought it from him as a freshened engine as that’s what he was told from original owner that took engine to local speed shop. Owner 2 picked up the engine from this shop wrapped in plastic. The engine was not freshened they as far as I can tell installed new comp gold rockers and expensive valve cover gaskets. As far as the engine not being a R/M piece it is 100 percent. From the cnc’d intake and heads and the sheer plate dart block pan etc. Even reher Morrison plug wires it’s the same as the picture on their website. I got the build sheet that is from reher Morrison and sent with it to original owner. He bought it in 2008 and had it shipped to Edmonton. I pulled the pan and bearing are date coded late 07. Nothing has been changed from original. I did not get the dyno sheet. Just found and old thread on here where Darren Morgan stated on the 412 super series engine gas ported pistons lead to a 705hp output over 680isb without.
This is a farce
You throw RMRE in to the deep end and now the truth is it’s not theres anymore as it’s been opened up-
Seek help sunshine

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Re: First time out with new 412Reher Morrison looking for opinions

Post by Olds455 » Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:02 am

VegaJohn wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:37 pm
randy331 wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:19 pm
VegaJohn wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:03 pm

It’s replys like that, that keep me on forums like this. I appreciate all constructive ideas from you guys and will ignore the odd guy who is just here to be a dick. I do know my collectors are only 3” and they call for 3.5”. There’s lots of little places that I can pick away at to improve this car. I don’t have much money into the whole thing and overall I’m happy with how it goes. If some of these guys on here saw how it pulls away from a lot of 572s etc they would really be disappointed in those big engine also. Our racing conditions must be close to what Denver has to deal with.
I took it you weren't the original owner of this engine ?? Otherwise, yes deal with the engine builder.

Once the engine changes hands,...all bets are off as to what happened or got changed on it.
I've seen it before.

Had a guy stop by the shop last night. Said he changed valve covers and the engine blew up when he started it again. Dropped a valve. Best I can make of the situation is,.. he bolted a valve cover on that is too short and somehow got it bolted down and the valve cover was holding some valves open???
He's mentioned me building him an engine. Some situations you avoid.

So, if vegajohn didn't buy it directly from RM,.. who knows. May not have ever been thier engine and someone put thier valve covers on it and sold it as such.

Randy
You are correct about me not being the original owner. Technically I’m owner number 3 but owner 2 never ran the engine I know him. I bought it from him as a freshened engine as that’s what he was told from original owner that took engine to local speed shop. Owner 2 picked up the engine from this shop wrapped in plastic. The engine was not freshened they as far as I can tell installed new comp gold rockers and expensive valve cover gaskets. As far as the engine not being a R/M piece it is 100 percent. From the cnc’d intake and heads and the sheer plate dart block pan etc. Even reher Morrison plug wires it’s the same as the picture on their website. I got the build sheet that is from reher Morrison and sent with it to original owner. He bought it in 2008 and had it shipped to Edmonton. I pulled the pan and bearing are date coded late 07. Nothing has been changed from original. I did not get the dyno sheet. Just found and old thread on here where Darren Morgan stated on the 412 super series engine gas ported pistons lead to a 705hp output over 680isb without.
Personally, I wouldn't pay attention to him. He questions anything and everything posted by anyone who isn't part of the "cool kidz" club :rolleyes:

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Re: First time out with new 412Reher Morrison looking for opinions

Post by VegaJohn » Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:50 am

Arthur wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 3:09 am
VegaJohn wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:37 pm
randy331 wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:19 pm


I took it you weren't the original owner of this engine ?? Otherwise, yes deal with the engine builder.

Once the engine changes hands,...all bets are off as to what happened or got changed on it.
I've seen it before.

Had a guy stop by the shop last night. Said he changed valve covers and the engine blew up when he started it again. Dropped a valve. Best I can make of the situation is,.. he bolted a valve cover on that is too short and somehow got it bolted down and the valve cover was holding some valves open???
He's mentioned me building him an engine. Some situations you avoid.

So, if vegajohn didn't buy it directly from RM,.. who knows. May not have ever been thier engine and someone put thier valve covers on it and sold it as such.

Randy
You are correct about me not being the original owner. Technically I’m owner number 3 but owner 2 never ran the engine I know him. I bought it from him as a freshened engine as that’s what he was told from original owner that took engine to local speed shop. Owner 2 picked up the engine from this shop wrapped in plastic. The engine was not freshened they as far as I can tell installed new comp gold rockers and expensive valve cover gaskets. As far as the engine not being a R/M piece it is 100 percent. From the cnc’d intake and heads and the sheer plate dart block pan etc. Even reher Morrison plug wires it’s the same as the picture on their website. I got the build sheet that is from reher Morrison and sent with it to original owner. He bought it in 2008 and had it shipped to Edmonton. I pulled the pan and bearing are date coded late 07. Nothing has been changed from original. I did not get the dyno sheet. Just found and old thread on here where Darren Morgan stated on the 412 super series engine gas ported pistons lead to a 705hp output over 680isb without.
This is a farce
You throw RMRE in to the deep end and now the truth is it’s not theres anymore as it’s been opened up-
Seek help sunshine
I never once said a bad word about Reher Morrison. I’ve said I’m happy with the performance for what I’ve spent. This is the last time I’m responding to your antics you waste of skin. Go back to what ever bridge you troll under and stay there.

Cherio

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Re: First time out with new 412Reher Morrison looking for opinions

Post by steve316 » Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:52 am

Cool kid or not; it has too much cam and not enough compression. So I'm in agreement with Randy and Knight engines.

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Re: First time out with new 412Reher Morrison looking for opinions

Post by CGT » Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:22 am

Olds455 wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:02 am
Personally, I wouldn't pay attention to him. He questions anything and everything posted by anyone who isn't part of the "cool kidz" club :rolleyes:
"cool kidz" what does that even mean, I mean cmon. I can't make sense of what you are saying when you talk like that. "rolleyes"??? really?...Don wouldn't have wanted this forum to go to this. Can you try to be professional? SMH SMFH MOO
Last edited by CGT on Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, He will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man"

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Re: First time out with new 412Reher Morrison looking for opinions

Post by F-BIRD'88 » Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:29 am

Its hard to get help when everybody has their panties in a knot. When perf is corrected to sea level standard air the engine is performing exactly to spec.
If you alrady have the dominator and new 4500 manifold in hand install it and try it out.
3 things will happen.
It will run a lil faster, a lil slower or it will run the same.
I ALways find performance with track tuning.
You will too. Takes patience.
If its got 12:1 its got plenty cr. If the rings are sealing its fine.

If this is a bracket racer its plenty fast.
Is it consistant? Will it win any money?
Its fun when they hand you money..

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Re: First time out with new 412Reher Morrison looking for opinions

Post by VegaJohn » Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:35 am

F-Bird thanks for the advice. I am going to put the 1050 and super victor on. I have also pulled the trigger on buying a pair of 660s and a Holley Pro Dominator and linkage. I may not get in on this season but for sure next. I’m also going to swap my 1.6 exhaust rockers for some 1.5s to try and keep a bit more air in my cylinders. I will freshen the engine after this season. It still cranks 210psi across the board which up here and with a cam that’s too big and compression that’s too low seems pretty stout to me.

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Re: First time out with new 412Reher Morrison looking for opinions

Post by RevTheory » Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:59 am

VegaJohn wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:35 am
F-Bird thanks for the advice. I am going to put the 1050 and super victor on. I have also pulled the trigger on buying a pair of 660s and a Holley Pro Dominator and linkage. I may not get in on this season but for sure next. I’m also going to swap my 1.6 exhaust rockers for some 1.5s to try and keep a bit more air in my cylinders. I will freshen the engine after this season. It still cranks 210psi across the board which up here and with a cam that’s too big and compression that’s too low seems pretty stout to me.
More in and less out sounds like a logical plan for your elevation.

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Re: First time out with new 412Reher Morrison looking for opinions

Post by F-BIRD'88 » Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:01 am

You could try some lash change tests too.
Say .006" bigger, then .006" less than spec.
Again 3 things will happen.
If it speeds up with more lash and also slows down
With less lash. This is a clue...
On our 406 we tried a few 260-266 cams out..
Stuff on hand.. For initial testing..
Ran good.. Then we installed the big 280+ nitrous cam
I speced for when on spray. Guess what: it made more dyno power and ran quicker too N/A.
(It also made great power. On nitrous, a different story)
Point is it loved the big cam.. I speced it, Comp finalized the lobe choices. And suggested a lsa. 113.. I could only give a range of lsa's with nos.
We thru it in and it worked great. Your cam is not much different.. We did launch higher 6200+ and trap higher 1/4 mi. Your cam is not that bad. If it is so bad a lash change will show this.
R&M can suggest safe lash limits. Thus is just for testing. Can make short runs to 330 ft if you want.
Up to you. Usually if you get beyond .008" looser you are getting beyond the truth (off the lash ramp), u can tighten and test without fear. If the car slows a bit either way it tell you just as much as if it speeds up.
Its when you get no track change, u scratch your head.
Ha ha.
Nice that the online air density web site shows historical weather data now. As you always must correct for weather.. Nice to do test changes on same day.
You sure won't get er all done in 1 day...
I am not likeing running the car with no hood.
This can effect car perf. A big chin spoiler under the bumper( rad support has a big effect.
I'd love to find a Vega drag racer like that.
Put my 406 and th350 in.
At one time they were like cowboy hats..
Everybody had one. Cool car...

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Re: First time out with new 412Reher Morrison looking for opinions

Post by CGT » Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:09 am

VegaJohn wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:35 am
F-Bird thanks for the advice. I am going to put the 1050 and super victor on. I have also pulled the trigger on buying a pair of 660s and a Holley Pro Dominator and linkage. I may not get in on this season but for sure next. I’m also going to swap my 1.6 exhaust rockers for some 1.5s to try and keep a bit more air in my cylinders. I will freshen the engine after this season. It still cranks 210psi across the board which up here and with a cam that’s too big and compression that’s too low seems pretty stout to me.
You could always plot the current cam with a degree wheel if your curious or skeptical as to whats in there. You could then use your IVC point from this and do some looking at cranking compression calcs for reference...or just go racing and enjoy. I mean its definitely showing considerably short on power, even with your air quality. But if your enjoying racing and tinkering with it...……..then do that for now and have fun.
"If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, He will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man"

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Re: First time out with new 412Reher Morrison looking for opinions

Post by F-BIRD'88 » Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:16 am

Yoy want to do every thing you can to force feed that thin air to the motor. Forward facing hood scoop sealed to carb box carb pan. Max carb size to minimize pumping loss. (Or 2x carbs)
The dominator should pick it up a bit. This will take time to dial in too.
As you can tell I am very bias towards the tunnel ram.
I like the 2x 750 hp based carbs venturi size for this one.
You can build these for peanuts using proform bodies
And donor 650 thru 800 donor carbs for parts.
The 660's are a great overall choice. As long as you did not pay a arm and a leg... Because they were purpose designed for it they are always a benchmark on a tunnel ram car.

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Re: First time out with new 412Reher Morrison looking for opinions

Post by VegaJohn » Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:17 am

CGT wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:09 am
VegaJohn wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:35 am
F-Bird thanks for the advice. I am going to put the 1050 and super victor on. I have also pulled the trigger on buying a pair of 660s and a Holley Pro Dominator and linkage. I may not get in on this season but for sure next. I’m also going to swap my 1.6 exhaust rockers for some 1.5s to try and keep a bit more air in my cylinders. I will freshen the engine after this season. It still cranks 210psi across the board which up here and with a cam that’s too big and compression that’s too low seems pretty stout to me.
You could always plot the current cam with a degree wheel if your curious or skeptical as to whats in there. You could then use your IVC point from this and do some looking at cranking compression calcs for reference...or just go racing and enjoy. I mean its definitely showing considerably short on power, even with your air quality. But if your enjoying racing and tinkering with it...……..then do that for now and have fun.
Reher Morrisons own performance chart says at my cars weight with that engine it should run 5.7 in the 1/8th. That’s at sea level. So what does that correct to 4500ft. I know there’s still a few things that I need to do. Like 3.5” collectors and I should get a converter matched to the engine. This is just for fun for me. There’s no money to win. I just come on here for free tips and advice and I’ve got plenty of ideas to try now. Thanks guys, except for what’s his name....

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Re: First time out with new 412Reher Morrison looking for opinions

Post by F-BIRD'88 » Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:22 am

Tires have a big effect. I can give you a great Converter guy's name here. He is one of the best in North America.
Especially 1/8 th mile.
Get some track time in with the new induction on first.

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Re: First time out with new 412Reher Morrison looking for opinions

Post by F-BIRD'88 » Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:29 am

To analysis corrected track perf to sea level will need
All test data time slips in order on days,,, dates and times, location.
The historical track consitions data is there.
I ran it thru simpl:fied math method roughly for 4000 ft. Air density
The motor is fine.

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