Another Ford 2 bbl C project.

[mag2555]

Well it's back to iron again!
I will never ware out my Aluminum cutters at this rate, lol!

Some info and shots of the what I think will be the master ports , but might do more Exh work .

I stepped up to a 2.10" Intake and a 1.70" Exh , but might go to a 1.75"or so .

Notice how much the short turn was shaved back, without doing that flow numbers above 255 would not show up.

The stock valve sizes where 2.03" and 1.67".

Stock Intake flow@28"
.100----- .200"-----.300"-----.400"-----.450"-----.500"-----.550"-----.600"-----.650"-----.700"
--66-------140-------185.2----198-------201-------202
Ported Intake flow @28" with 2.10",45 seat , no back cut.
--71.9-----154-------226-------271.3----278.5----286.6-----290

Stock 4bbl C head with 2.19" valve.
--49.3------131.6----197-----243.2-----258.3-----265.9----270.5-----279.6-----285.7----288.6

Stock Exh flow@28"
--56-------87--------118-------141.2-----154-------156.9-----159-----160
Ported Exh flow@28" with 1.70", no back cut, 1.456" Throat.
--59------96--------136--------173--------186.8----202-------207.9----211.9
A flow test at .600" with a 1 3/4" tube gave 222 cfm.

The Intake main Throat is now at 1.81" and the sub Throat just below the seat bottom cut is 1.89", so like 86%.

I have not poured the Intake port yet but circumference checks show a ruff port area at the crown of the short turn of 3.09 sq in as compared to the 4 bbl C head of some 3.46 sq in.

I am thinking about getting the shallow side of the chamber milled/ leveled off and getting Pistons made with a small dome on that side to get some bit of quench going on and then have the other side of the piston dished and shoot for a 9.4 comp on this 400m motor.

[Steve.k]

Very good numbers mag. The 2v Cleveland is a underdog for sure. We have one setup up in bog truck surprised a lot of us. In our recent tests however nothing trumped the 4v small valve head in flow out of box.

[Daniel Jones]

Very nice. What intake manifold do you plan on using?

Dan Jones

[mag2555]

The Edelbrock air gap for the C motors looks like it will work well for this fellow since there version of the 4 bbl heads have smaller then stock ports and he has no need to go more then 6000 rpm .

Thanks all for the compliment's!

[Daniel Jones]

> The Edelbrock air gap for the C motors looks like it will work well for this fellow since there version of the 4 bbl heads have smaller then stock ports and he has no need to go more then 6000 rpm .

The 351C RPM Air Gap has a 2V intake port size. Edelbrock advertises it for both 2V and 4V heads since it will seal on either head. Dave McLain and I tested it and several other intakes on a 393C (351C with 3.85" stroker crank) with lightly ported Aussie closed chamber 2V heads (stock valve sizes) and a mild hydraulic roller cam designed to peak at 6000 RPM or so. On that engine, the results were:

1. Parker Funnelweb 2V (cast in Australia, not one of the Chinese knock offs)
2. Holley Street Dominator 351C-2V (slightly smaller than 2V ports, has provisions for EGR)
3. Weiand Xcelerator 351C-2V (slightly larger than 2V ports)
4. Edelbrock Performer RPM Air Gap 2V

Intakes were tested with a couple of 1" spacers. What was interesting was that all three single plane intakes beat the dual plane RPM Air Gap across the entire RPM range test (down to 2500 RPM or so), not just near peak RPM. That was somewhat unexpected as the RPM Air Gap had tested well on a 351C-4V engine where it gave up some peak power to single planes intakes like the Holley Strip Dominator but made up for it with much better peak torque. The Aussie 2V we used had something like 220 CFM intake flow but a relatively strong 200 CFM exhaust flow. We surmised that, with those heads and 393 cubic inches, we were limited by the intake flow and the dual plane plenum effect wasn't needed so just represented an intake restriction. Since that test, TFS has introduced a single plane for the 351C-2V heads but we've not tested it yet.

Dan Jones

[tuffxf]

Gday
Look for a 2v active manifold.
Cheers

[mag2555]

This fellow also told that he had a conversion Manifold that they do not make any more ( can't recall the brand name) but it's some 15 years old or more and he says they where short lived when they where produced.

Thanks all for the info!

[Carnut1]

I never did a Ford C head. I am guessing not a real efficient exhaust port design. Last 289 exhaust port flowed 202.5 cfm @.7" lift with 1 7/8" pipe. How many cc is that exhaust port when done? Enjoy seeing your work. Thanks, Charlie

[Daniel Jones]

The Redline Street Torker (p/n 12-154) also looks interesting. Extenally it looks like a Holley Strip Dominator but with 2V ports. One interesting feature is the Street Torker will directly mount a Carter Thermo Quad or Rochester Quadrajet, in addition to the usual Holleys and AFB's.

> This fellow also told that he had a conversion manifold that they do not make any more ( can't recall the brand name) but it's some 15 years old or more and he says they where short lived when they where produced.

There were a variety of 351M/400 intakes produced over the years. Here's a list I put together:

Edelbrock S.P.2.P. 400 (P/N 3370)
- low rise (A=3.5", B=4.9") dual plane with Holley carb bolt pattern
- CARB emissions approved
- advertised RPM range: idle-4000 rpm
- no longer in production
- low rpm type economy manifold with smaller than stock runners

Edelbrock S.P.2.P. 400-2V (P/N 5171)
- low rise (A=3.7", B=4.95") dual plane with Holley 2BBL carb bolt pattern
- CARB emissions approved
- advertised RPM range: idle-4000 rpm
- no longer in production
- low rpm type economy manifold with smaller than stock runners

Edelbrock Streetmaster (P/N 3190)
- low rise single plane with Holley carb bolt pattern
- no longer in production
- small port, small plenum, economy type intake

Edelbrock Performer 400 Non-EGR (P/N 2171)
- low rise (A=3.6", B=4.75") dual plane with Holley carb bolt pattern
- not CARB emissions approved
- advertised RPM range: idle-5500
- installation notes from Edelbrock catalog: choke block-off plate #8971 included
- recommended intake gasket: Fel-Pro #MS96020.

Edelbrock Performer 400 EGR (P/N 3771)
- low rise (A=3.6", B=4.75") dual plane with Holley carb bolt pattern
- CARB emissions approved
- advertised RPM range: idle-5500
- completely different casting from 400 non-EGR
- can be used in three configurations:
1. OEM 2V carb and EGR system with supplied 2V EGR spacer
2. 4V EGR system with either an Edelbrock #8053 4V EGR spacer,
or an Edelbrock #8017 and Ford #E4ZZ9A-589E 4V EGR spacer
3. Non-EGR 4V system with an Edelbrock #8714 adapter.
- installation notes from Edelbrock catalog: recommended intake gasket: Fel-Pro #MS96020.

Ford 400 iron for 4V carb
- low rise dual plane
- part number XE 193476
- circa 1977

Holley Street Dominator 351M-400 (P/N 300-20)
- low rise, open plenum, single plane
- Holley/Carter standard 4 BBL and Motorcraft 4300D spreadbore carb bolt pattern
- advertised rpm range: idle-5500
- CARB emissions approved (provisions for EGR)

Offenhauser Dual Port 400 (P/N 6033-DP)
- low rise dual port with Holley carb bolt pattern
- not CARB emissions approved
- advertised RPM range: idle-???
- '71 later 400

Offenhauser Dual Port 400 (6034-DP)
- low rise dual port with spread bore carb bolt pattern
- not CARB emissions approved
- advertised RPM range: idle-???

Offenhauser Dual Port 351M (P/N 6141-DP)
- low rise dual port with Holley carb bolt pattern
- not CARB emissions approved
- advertised RPM range: idle-???
- '75 and later 351M

Weiand Action Plus 351M/400 Series (P/N 8010)
- low rise (A=3.75", B=4.75") dual plane with Holley carb bolt pattern
- not CARB emissions approved (no EGR)
- advertised RPM range: idle-6000
- renamed Stealth after Holley purchased Weiand
- 24 lbs shipping weight
- idle to 6000 rpm

Weiand Stealth 351M/400 Series (P/N 8310)
- same as 8010 but with EGR spacer plate
- low rise (A=3.75", B=4.75") dual plane with Holley carb bolt pattern
- not CARB emissions approved (no EGR)
- advertised RPM range: idle-6000
- was renamed Action Plus for a while

Both Weiand (p/n 8205) and Price Motorsport Engineering (PME) make 351C-2V intake manifold to 400 block spacers.

Dan Jones

[mag2555]

Thanks Charlie!
I have not CCed it in stock form and ported, but most of the rework was on the roof and widening the port on the head bolt side due to the stock port bias.
I will take a stab at 6 CCs over stock.

On the outlet side of the port on the floor on back to the crown of the short turn about all I did was polish the floor as you may be able to make out from the photos.

For me in terms of exh side rework and flow and since I have both open chamber and closed chamber 4 bbl Mule heads heads and iron 385 series heads , I would much sooner start off with the 2bbl C head if I was looking for something like flow numbers up to 215 cfm without a tube.

Dan thanks for the info , but it's none of those brand Manifolds you listed.
I have to look in my old info book and see if I still have the old add info when they came out.
If I recall right I think I first saw them in Super Stock Mag?

[Steve.k]

Dan i think the offey dual port was rated to 5500. Thats what we used on my sons bogger and was impressed with how it worked.

[jcisworthy]

I dont know if you cut one of those heads apart before? You are close to water on the intake for sure.

[mag2555]

Yes , I dare not go more ! With the Intake short turn lay back I have .050" left in one area across the floor that's about 1/8" wide.
The only thin point on the Exh port is external on the roof.

Here's a shot comparing the overkill amount of stock short turn height for 205 cfm in comparison to the rework short turn.

[Carnut1]

Damn! That is huge removal of meat off the ssr! Looks good.

[DaveMcLain]

Damn! That is huge removal of meat off the ssr! Looks good.

It sure is.... I'd be afraid that I might make an amazing breakthrough in porting!