Self aligning rockers and adjustable guide plates?

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Self aligning rockers and adjustable guide plates?

Post by BOOT » Wed Aug 09, 2017 4:04 pm

Ok stupid question time!

I know your not suppose to use self aligning rockers and guide plates!
I know your not suppose to use self aligning rockers and guide plates!
I know your not suppose to use self aligning rockers and guide plates!


BUT........ anyone try adjustable guide plates with self aligning rockers???

Didn't want to high jack another thread but when I read a comment it made me think. I know you don't use them together but I honestly never really put too much thought into exactly why and it seems it could be just a standard/fixed/one piece guide plate problem.

INC post about asking a stupid question and so on.....
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Re: Self aligning rockers and adjustable guide plates?

Post by pamotorman » Wed Aug 09, 2017 5:18 pm

I would guess this would have to be done if using solid lifter cams along with a narrow feeler gauge to set the lash.

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Re: Self aligning rockers and adjustable guide plates?

Post by GARY C » Wed Aug 09, 2017 5:50 pm

The main thing is that they don't work against each other but I am sure you know that. I have seen it done before, one thought is less push rod flex and a rocker that stays more centered on the valve tip.

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Re: Self aligning rockers and adjustable guide plates?

Post by SupStk » Thu Aug 10, 2017 1:22 am

Guess I don't see the point. Both align the rocker with the valve stem tip. Why would a person need two systems doing the same thing, possibly binding and creating more friction?
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Re: Self aligning rockers and adjustable guide plates?

Post by BOOT » Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:52 am

It's not something I'll prob try anytime soon it just occurred to me that it should be possible with adj plates. I still think the pushrod side is the best way to align the rocker, but in some cases were the added stability is needed and options limited. I never considered SA rockers to be great or you'd be able to find them in a bigger selection and of course shafts are more ideal than either.
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Re: Self aligning rockers and adjustable guide plates?

Post by GARY C » Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:25 pm

SupStk wrote:Guess I don't see the point. Both align the rocker with the valve stem tip. Why would a person need two systems doing the same thing, possibly binding and creating more friction?
Because now you are controlling the rocker from both ends instead of just from one end via a device that is 2" down on a push rod that is not actually connected to the rocker.

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Re: Self aligning rockers and adjustable guide plates?

Post by SupStk » Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:50 pm

GARY C wrote:
SupStk wrote:Guess I don't see the point. Both align the rocker with the valve stem tip. Why would a person need two systems doing the same thing, possibly binding and creating more friction?
Because now you are controlling the rocker from both ends instead of just from one end via a device that is 2" down on a push rod that is not actually connected to the rocker.
Still not sure that is the best idea I've heard. Years ago had a Ford 302 in the shop. The guy who assembled it had 289 heads with the pushrod slots and rail rockers on it. The engine came in for excessive oil consumption and fouling plugs. After looking at the guide wear there was little doubt where the oil was going.

That aside, aftermarket vortec rockers warn against using pushrod guide with those rockers. Wonder why they would do that? :roll:
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Re: Self aligning rockers and adjustable guide plates?

Post by HotRodRay » Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:51 pm

Worth noting is that rail rockers require longer valve tips above the keepers. Rail rockers have been rumored to unlatch keepers on the short tips.

Ford went to rail rockers because it was cheaper $ than machining the guide holes in the head... seems Chevy did the same thing.

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Re: Self aligning rockers and adjustable guide plates?

Post by pdq67 » Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:49 pm

BOOT wrote:It's not something I'll prob try anytime soon it just occurred to me that it should be possible with adj plates. I still think the pushrod side is the best way to align the rocker, but in some cases were the added stability is needed and options limited. I never considered SA rockers to be great or you'd be able to find them in a bigger selection and of course shafts are more ideal than either.
Silly me!

What does, "SA", mean?

As for, "guided/rail", rocker tips, I like that idea. If I was to run them with a solid lifter cam, I would just narrow my feeler gauges to fit in the slot.

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Re: Self aligning rockers and adjustable guide plates?

Post by BOOT » Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:11 pm

self align
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Re: Self aligning rockers and adjustable guide plates?

Post by pdq67 » Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:32 am

BOOT wrote:self align
Thank you, "self-align".

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Re: Self aligning rockers and adjustable guide plates?

Post by dfarr67 » Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:01 pm

Don't do it. Machine shop did it to me- cost me a set of guides, another shop sent me two engines the same way- one was binding- changed over to regular roller rockers- issue fixed, other I pulled the cover off and was surprised to see the same. It MAY work- but I say go guide plates and regular rockers. You may have seen a corvette application with both, but as I understand it the guide plates were non functional assembly line aids.

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Re: Self aligning rockers and adjustable guide plates?

Post by BOOT » Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:45 pm

Where they two/three piece adjustable guideplates that ruined your guides with SA rockers or one piece fixed plates?

The C4 corvette 1st came with iron heads with regular pushrod slots, then halfway thru 1986 they switched to alum heads and used actual hardened guideplates, I don't know the actual year but later they went to SA(self aligning) rockers and pushrod assembly holders(not hardened).
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