Don Terrill’s Speed-Talk

I know there has been debate on this forum about the rules for the EMC over the years. As we work on the
technical rules for our contest, I would like to get some of your opinions/ideas.
raceenginechallenge.com

Unless you want this to be a VERY high dollar contest; put some REALISTIC limits upon cylinder heads, header tube diameter and RPM range.

Don't price this contest out of the realm of most regular type people; try and make "smarts" more important than "money", (surely impossible but, try).

[quote="Gregory"]I know there has been debate on this forum about the rules for the EMC over the years. As we work on the
technical rules for our contest, I would like to get some of your opinions/ideas.
http://www.raceenginechallenge.com

I have always thought the way EMC scores the results is unrealistic. They score both average hp and average torque over the rpm range and add them together. Something like that anyway. My feeling is just scoring average hp is better as it incorporates torque into it already. Adding average torque on top of that is silly, in my opinion, and overly accentuates low rpm results.

JMO,

paulie

One idea I like would be something like, "here's the fuel octane that will be used: the compression ratio is up to you."

RevTheory wrote:One idea I like would be something like, "here's the fuel octane that will be used: the compression ratio is up to you."

That's the way it was a long time ago. We had to run on 91 octane unleaded.

DaveMcLain wrote:

RevTheory wrote:One idea I like would be something like, "here's the fuel octane that will be used: the compression ratio is up to you."

That's the way it was a long time ago. We had to run on 91 octane unleaded.

Octane alone does not determine the potential of a fuel. Old wives tale.
Much better to set an upper static compression limit and leave fuel alone. Run whatcha brung including fuel.

What if you had to use there supplied controlled spec fuel? Like a fresh blended and sealed barrel of Sonoco 91 or whatever is chosen? Add a compression limit too?

gvx wrote:What if you had to use there supplied controlled spec fuel? Like a fresh blended and sealed barrel of Sonoco 91 or whatever is chosen? Add a compression limit too?

That's more along the lines of what I meant. "Here's the fuel we're going to run; if you can only build to 11.0, that's on you." You know what I mean?

I think it will be a mistake to run this Engine Challenge on dates directly opposing the Engine Masters.

That makes it impossible for anyone to enter both.

exhaustgases wrote:Limit the parts

I think along with Spec'd supplied fuel; limit cubes 410? and an intake restriction plate like 9.6? square on factory valve angle heads specific to each manufactured platform. Judged similar to EMC with average totaled power and torque within a specific RPM range? Don't forget a vintage class either.

Walter R. Malik wrote:I think it will be a mistake to run this Engine Challenge on dates directly opposing the Engine Masters.

That makes it impossible for anyone to enter both.

Also difficult for anyone to attend both.
If they were on different days then *both* organisers would make more money because of higher attendance.

Spec fuel is a very, very dumb idea. When implemented, racers never learn anything about fuel chemistry or combustion, and limit themselves to merely playing with old hardware.

The same holds true for ECUs and turbochargers, both of which should be allowed.

More importantly, what exactly is a competition of this sort trying to prove or determine?

Exactly what is your goal for this challenge? High horsepower? High torque? Both? Cost parameters? Use after the challenge? Proof of concepts? One thing I found at EMC was building average torque AND average horsepower to get a higher score is not as easy as it sounds. Original parts vs aftermarket parts? Just what are your goals? Joe-71

Here's what I'd do for rules...

Maximum of 10:1 static compression
Maximum of 410 cubic inches
Must use a factory crankshaft
Must use a factory production block with factory cam base circle and type (no retrofit or big base circle cams)
Must use a hydraulic cam with a maximum of .550" lift as measured at the valve (cam may be custom grind)
Must use factory production iron heads with any porting or valve sizing allowed
Must use a dual plane intake with the center divider (no RPM airgap, carb spacers allowed but no more than 1" and must be divided or 4-hole)
Maximum carburetor CFM of 750
Engine must produce a minimum of 12" of vacuum at 1000 rpm idle
Fuel used will be 91 octane

Engine will be run at part throttle and full throttle with scoring for both averaged together.

I'd have fun building something for such a class. That could just be me though.