Race Engine Challenge

General engine tech -- Drag Racing to Circle Track

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Gregory
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Race Engine Challenge

Post by Gregory » Tue Aug 08, 2017 9:48 pm

I know there has been debate on this forum about the rules for the EMC over the years. As we work on the
technical rules for our contest, I would like to get some of your opinions/ideas.
raceenginechallenge.com

Walter R. Malik
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Re: Race Engine Challenge

Post by Walter R. Malik » Wed Aug 09, 2017 12:16 am

Unless you want this to be a VERY high dollar contest; put some REALISTIC limits upon cylinder heads, header tube diameter and RPM range.

Don't price this contest out of the realm of most regular type people; try and make "smarts" more important than "money", (surely impossible but, try).
http://www.rmcompetition.com
Specialty engine building at its finest.

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Re: Race Engine Challenge

Post by Gregory » Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:29 pm

[quote="Gregory"]I know there has been debate on this forum about the rules for the EMC over the years. As we work on the
technical rules for our contest, I would like to get some of your opinions/ideas.
http://www.raceenginechallenge.com

plovett
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Re: Race Engine Challenge

Post by plovett » Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:49 am

I have always thought the way EMC scores the results is unrealistic. They score both average hp and average torque over the rpm range and add them together. Something like that anyway. My feeling is just scoring average hp is better as it incorporates torque into it already. Adding average torque on top of that is silly, in my opinion, and overly accentuates low rpm results.

JMO,

paulie

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Re: Race Engine Challenge

Post by exhaustgases » Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:33 pm

Limit the parts, kinda like the one fellow says limiting fancy store bought parts, since EMC is a big advertisement for parts manufactures and a huge restriction to "IDEAS" this should be the first thing to do. If someone can make or modify something them selves and engineer it, then so much the better. Maybe have a class called the "Back yard mechanic" for people that can't afford the best of the best and where they have to use some enginuity, restricted to stock and or hand made parts with a minimal amount of nonstock machined parts allowed.
I agree with what plovett said. And please leave the easy to change stuff alone, like CR for one or type of ignition systems.

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Re: Race Engine Challenge

Post by RevTheory » Thu Aug 10, 2017 1:55 pm

One idea I like would be something like, "here's the fuel octane that will be used: the compression ratio is up to you."

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Re: Race Engine Challenge

Post by DaveMcLain » Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:07 pm

RevTheory wrote:One idea I like would be something like, "here's the fuel octane that will be used: the compression ratio is up to you."
That's the way it was a long time ago. We had to run on 91 octane unleaded.

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Re: Race Engine Challenge

Post by David Redszus » Thu Aug 10, 2017 4:31 pm

DaveMcLain wrote:
RevTheory wrote:One idea I like would be something like, "here's the fuel octane that will be used: the compression ratio is up to you."
That's the way it was a long time ago. We had to run on 91 octane unleaded.
Octane alone does not determine the potential of a fuel. Old wives tale.
Much better to set an upper static compression limit and leave fuel alone. Run whatcha brung including fuel.

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Re: Race Engine Challenge

Post by gvx » Thu Aug 10, 2017 6:05 pm

What if you had to use there supplied controlled spec fuel? Like a fresh blended and sealed barrel of Sonoco 91 or whatever is chosen? Add a compression limit too?
3 DAY SEMINAR. Instructor DAVID VIZARD. Pleased to announce for our Australian friends Sept 30, Oct 1, 2 location N.S.W. near Sidney for information go to ->http://www.davidvizardperformanceseminars.com

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Re: Race Engine Challenge

Post by RevTheory » Thu Aug 10, 2017 6:18 pm

gvx wrote:What if you had to use there supplied controlled spec fuel? Like a fresh blended and sealed barrel of Sonoco 91 or whatever is chosen? Add a compression limit too?
That's more along the lines of what I meant. "Here's the fuel we're going to run; if you can only build to 11.0, that's on you." You know what I mean?

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Re: Race Engine Challenge

Post by Walter R. Malik » Thu Aug 10, 2017 6:29 pm

I think it will be a mistake to run this Engine Challenge on dates directly opposing the Engine Masters.

That makes it impossible for anyone to enter both.
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Re: Race Engine Challenge

Post by gvx » Thu Aug 10, 2017 6:52 pm

exhaustgases wrote:Limit the parts
I think along with Spec'd supplied fuel; limit cubes 410? and an intake restriction plate like 9.6? square on factory valve angle heads specific to each manufactured platform. Judged similar to EMC with average totaled power and torque within a specific RPM range? Don't forget a vintage class either.
3 DAY SEMINAR. Instructor DAVID VIZARD. Pleased to announce for our Australian friends Sept 30, Oct 1, 2 location N.S.W. near Sidney for information go to ->http://www.davidvizardperformanceseminars.com

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Re: Race Engine Challenge

Post by Circlotron » Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:03 pm

Walter R. Malik wrote:I think it will be a mistake to run this Engine Challenge on dates directly opposing the Engine Masters.

That makes it impossible for anyone to enter both.
Also difficult for anyone to attend both.
If they were on different days then *both* organisers would make more money because of higher attendance.

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Re: Race Engine Challenge

Post by David Redszus » Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:28 pm

Spec fuel is a very, very dumb idea. When implemented, racers never learn anything about fuel chemistry or combustion, and limit themselves to merely playing with old hardware.

The same holds true for ECUs and turbochargers, both of which should be allowed.

More importantly, what exactly is a competition of this sort trying to prove or determine?

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Re: Race Engine Challenge

Post by Joe-71 » Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:45 pm

Exactly what is your goal for this challenge? High horsepower? High torque? Both? Cost parameters? Use after the challenge? Proof of concepts? One thing I found at EMC was building average torque AND average horsepower to get a higher score is not as easy as it sounds. Original parts vs aftermarket parts? Just what are your goals? Joe-71

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